(don't let yourself down. don't let yourself go. your last chance has arrived.)

[riverdresses]

So! Here we all are, with Two's final serial, The War Games. This serial is the longest of Two's era, clocking in at ten episodes overall, making it two shorter than One's epic serial The Daleks' Master Plan, or, as I like to think of it, the serial where a hell of a lot of people die in it.

At the start of the rewatch-athon, I wasn't sure how I would watch this story, since it's so huge. I finally decided to dedicate a full week to watching it, with my recap being posted early Saturday morning as usual, with each story having its own cut to make it easier for people to read.

& as I said last week, here's the layout for the final half of the great & mighty Troughton rewatch-athon. (folks, there was a reason it's called 'the great & mighty Troughton rewatch-athon' - it wouldn't have been if I was stopping here!)

Next week: Spearhead From Space, The Curse of Peladon & The Three Doctors. (the first two are sort of bonus stories; the first bridging the gap between Two & Three's eras, the second one starring Patrick's son David as King Peladon. & of course, The Three Doctors needs no explanation!)

Week after: The Five Doctors, The Two Doctors & Jamie's Companion Chronicle Helicon Prime.

Final week: Midnight & wrap-up party.

Note: I know most of you know that I've broken almost all ties with the new series (until Eleven arrives, anyway), but I'm including Midnight because it features David Troughton as one of the main characters - by including it, I'm coming full circle, as I see it. It's like this: if it hadn't been for the new series, I never would have came to the classic series & never would have found a) half of you lot & b) so many of my favourite serials & my three favourite Doctors. So, while I'd rather not sit through Midnight again, for David Troughton, I shall do it with pleasure.

The War Games - Episode One

- Hmm. This is a Terrance Dicks & Malcolm Hulke story. I quite like Terrance Dicks-written serials & I LOVED the Sea Devils, so the main story could be interesting, at least. Heh.

- LOLZ, JAMIE STEPS IN MUD AS SOON AS HE GETS OUT OF THE TARDIS & EVERYONE ELSE LAUGHS. ::gigglesnorts::

'What a place.'

- ZOE'S WEARING A MAC! WHAT? Zoe, no skirts?

- JAMIE, DON'T TOUCH THE BARBED WIRE. ::slaps::

- . . . World War I, isn't it? I & I only know this from some godawful horror movie I saw that was set very literally, in the trenches of World War I.

- WHOA, KILT BILLOWING UPWARDS!

- & Two pulls him out of the way! By the waist! ::hearts::

- I like Zoe's mac. It's cute & practical for where she is now.

- The major recognised Jamie as a Highlander - that's a first!

- Um. General Smythe . . . well, he looks to be using something that I wouldn't thought around during this war . . . hmm.

- Jamie, it isn't proper to get snappy with military men, you know. But I do like my Highlanders feisty & hot-blooded!

- Random fashion note: I'm liking Jamie's fab jacket! Goes well with his kilt, I think!

- 'Well there's no need to keep shouting at us, you know!'

ZOE! Reminds me of Victoria & her snappiness in The Enemy of the World a bit.

- I'm only twelve minutes in, & I'm already wondering how Jamie must feel, being in a place like this. When he met the Doctor, he himself was in the middle of a war - a very ugly, & ultimately, a very ugly defeat for his people during the eighteenth century. It - I just wonder if it brings back any memories for him.

- . . . Smythe just hypnotised someone, I think. Um. Creepy!

- HE'S DOING IT AGAIN WHAT THE HELL?

- Random fashion note two: Pat's got no sideburns! YAY! He looks prettier without them, I think.

- Well that was a positively shit trial. ::glares:: & knowing how this comes out in the end . . . Two just can't get a fair trial, cam he? & Jamie & Zoe can't get a fair sentence, can thet?

- Okay, Smythe keeps hypnotising people & it's creepy. Yeah, there is something very, VERY wrong here.

- WHAT NO, YOU'RE NOT EXECUTING TWO AT DAWN, SAVE FOR OVER JAMIE'S DEAD BODY!

- OMG, TWO KISSED ZOE ON THE HEAD! AWWW! ::wibbles & cries::

'Goodbye my dear.'

Two . . . please, not so early on in the serial. Please.

- Random fashion note: Zoe's outfit UNDER her mac is really cute too! (I always thought Wendy Padbury had been pregnant at the time of this serial, which is why she wore the mac, but nope, I don't see such!)

- Oooo, sneaky little miss Heriot - you found your way back to the Doctor! ::hugs her::

- BASTARDS! YOU CAN'T EXECUTE HIM, YOU CAN'T! He hasn't done anything!

- YOU SHOT HIM!

The War Games - Episode Two

- WAIT! THEY DIDN'T SHOOT HIM! ::collapses:: & Zoe's getting him away! Run, run!

- JAMIE! ::clings desperately::

- HOLY SHIT. HE'S IN A FUCKING CELL WITH A REDCOAT. A REDCOAT! Who thinks it's 1745 - Jamie's own time! WHAT?

- Ooo, Authoritative!Two - sexy!

- Jamie's got a stick!

- & ONE FUCKING SEXY & FIERCE FACE ON. O, BABY.

- MORE Authoritative!Two! UNF, PAT, WHY SO SEXY WHEN YOU'RE ALL SHOUTY?

- OMG, GET YOUR FILTHY REDCOAT HANDS OFF OF MY JAMIE! Wait - never mind, it was a fakeout! & LOLZ, I LOVE JAMIE - 'You fight pretty well - for a Redcoat!'

- Lady Jennifer appears to be getting her memory back . . . like the Redcoat.

(also, I like Lady Jennifer so far. She was kind to a rather upset Zoe, which was good.)

- YOU GET YOUR FUCKING HANDS OFF OF MY JAMIE YOU BASTARDS!

- O, guh, Two shouting & being all . . . commanding with Jamie. O my word.

- HA! Zoe Heriot, intergalactic supergirl, taking out officers with flower vases! ::grins:: O, Zoe. ♥

- Carstairs & Lady Jennifer seem to be onto something very important here . . . this is a good sign, I think.

- Ooo, Lady Jennifer's pretty good at distracting the general's assistant! ::smiles:: She's seeming pretty awesome herself!

- ::giggle:: Lady Jennifer's awesome. Yeah, I think we can say that for sure.

- O dear. Carstairs AND Lady Jennifer can't see the screen - wait, now they can!

- ::sighs:: Carstairs believes them! He's going to help Two, Jamie & Zoe escape!

- I feel rather bad for all the people Smythe keeps hypnotising, I really rather do.

- Wait . . . the white fog that Lady Jennifer, Carstairs & the Redcoat all mentioned . . . ::looks lost::

- WHAT THE FUCK ROMAN SOLDIERS?! WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK?!

- & I just noted - Derrick Sherwin's wife is playing Lady Jennifer!

The War Games - Episode Three

- Okay, so, Roman soldiers. Like I said . . . WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK? They were just on a World War I battlefield!

- Two thousand years ago? What . . . what?

- Ooo, Jamie's ready for a fight, isn't he? ::twirl::

- OMG. THIS IS THE SCENE WHERE TWO DOES THE THING WITH JAMIE'S SPORRAN . . . O MY.

- LOLZ, TUNING FORK REFERENCE! ::snorts::

- JESUS, TWO, DON'T PLAY WITH EXPLOSIVES LIKE THAT.

- HE'S GRABBING THE BITS OF JAMIE'S SPORRAN NOW. ::giggles::

- I also quite love Carstairs, have I not mentioned that? He's kind of badass.

- Aww, Jamie's making more of his epic faces!

- BOOM! Got the map!

- Wait, the whole map is divided by time zones? O, yes, yes I see! Then they must be all different wars in human history.

- & he's being John Smith again. O, Two. ♥

- EEK, REVOLVER ON TWO WHAT?!

- O my . . . they've been captured by Germans.

- TWO'S GOT HIS SONIC SCREWDRIVER OUT, MOTHERFUCKERS! ::WAVES POMPOMS:: HE'S EVEN AWED A GERMAN WITH IT! ::adds to list of the abilities of the sonic screwdriver::

- O, FUCKSOCKS. Looks like Smythe's not the only general who can hypnotise people under his command . . .

- WHAT IS WITH THE SHOOTING, JESUS. CAN'T ANYONE BE LOCKED UP AGAIN?

- O, maybe this one's not as good as it as Smythe is . . . he remembers the sonic screwdriver!

- O. MY. WORD. The War Chief has just made his first appearance . . . & dude, he's got a lot of bling around his neck. ::giggle::

- Uh-oh . . . the Civil War now?

- Carstairs calls Jamie by his first name. I like that, for some reason.

- HA! JAMIE McCRIMMON WILL KICK YOUR ASS IN ANY TIME PERIOD, ANY PLANET, ANY PLACE, BITCHES. ::loves on Jamie::

(kind of random, but when I wrote that, I thought of a line from one of my favourite Bikini Kill songs, Feels Blind, which I usually associate with Romana, or sometimes Sarah Jane - 'there are no boundaries to what I can be' - which is very true of Jamie - no matter where he is, or what's happening, he can't be stopped once he's set his mind to doing something.)

- They captured Carstairs?! O, BUGGER!!

- NO! THE . . . the thing is taking off with Two & Zoe INSIDE of it!

The War Games - Episode Four

- Jamie & Lady Jennifer have been caught by Confederate soldiers, I think & Two & Zoe are . . . well, they're inside a second TARDIS.

- Germans, Romans, Civil War soldiers . . . they're all in some kind of hypnotic trance? I . . . I . . . ai ya!

- O, wait, they're not Confederates, they're Northern soldiers. & ahem, sirs, Jamie is Scottish - not English. British would be more apt, if you insist on being pedantic. But he's not English!

- Well, the Southern soldiers are a bit politer - up until they were re-hypnotised! ::glare::

- ::giggle:: That eyewear is LOLZ. Seriously!

- Random fashion note three: Jamie's SIDEBURNS! They're bordering on QUITE wild now!

- So there's a resistance forming among all the factions of the different wars? Hmm! This could be useful . . .

- OMFG JAMIE ON A HORSE! ::squees:: & he can ride! O, Jamie. ::draws hearts again::

- O, no - Carstairs! But he recognises Two & Zoe!

- O my . . . this . . . reconditioning scene I think just disturbed me more than both Serenity & The Enemy of the World combined.

- O, Jamie McCrimmon, you're practically a knight in shining armour! ::swoons:: Or, well, you would have been, if you hadn't been caught, yes?

- For some reason, Lady Jennifer reminds me a little of Barbara Wright. It's hard to say why, but she does a bit.

- Random fashion note four: Jamie has a nice backside, even under that kilt. ::eyes::

- When Two saw the War Chief . . . he freaked the fuck out! I mean, he really freaked out there!

- No, you can't shoot Zoe! Not Zoe, please! ::wibbles::

The War Games - Episode Five

- I'd offer Zoe the suggestion of breaking his wrist, or worse, but I like Carstairs & if he shook it off once, he'll shake it again!

- O! There's a Highlander soldier among the resistance fighters! I saw his sporran & kilt.

- WHOA, POP-ART WALLS OF AWESOME! But ooo, a little dizzying in a spiral style like that.

- What . . . what are they doing to poor Zoe? I can't quite figure it out.

- Lady Jennifer seems to have grasped the idea of such advanced technology & concepts very well, I must say. Maybe that's why she reminds me of Barbara.

- Hooray for Zoe's total recall memory!

- Hee - Two has a bit of hat hair after he takes off that helmet thing!

- Zoe's photographic memory FTW!

- O HAY IT'S THE SPIRAL THING FROM The Mind Robber!

- Hmm . . . the War Chief looks like he wears eyeliner. No, I'm serious, he DOES.

- I LOVE LADY JENNIFER. ENOUGH SAID. & she totally called Jamie out on his 'you're just a woman' shtick! ::grins:: I love Jamie, but I love it even more when he gets called out on his 'you're just a woman' bullshit. Pleases the riot grrrl in me.

- The truth machine? What a clunky name! Sounds more like a fancified mind probe to me! & that wouldn't be too much of a surprise, considering that this is a Terrance Dicks-half-helmed story . . .

- JAMIE! ::screams louder than Mel ever would have:: YOU KILLED HIM! BASTARDS!

The War Games - Episode Six

- O, I see how the TARDIS-like box opens - it slides its opening out, not down, like I thought it did.

- NO, NO, DON'T LEAVE JAMIE, PLEASE! ::cries:: PLEASE!

- . . . we have just had our first mention of the Time Lords. In relation to the War Chief.

- Hee, Zoe taped Two's finger to the metal & plastic thingy. ::giggle::

- O, Jamie's alive! & . . . he's very beautiful unconscious. Very beautiful. & even when he's being carried by two fellows in funny clothes.

- THE RETURN OF LIEUTENANT CARSTAIRS, THE MOST BADASS THING TO EVER FLY OUT OF THE FIRST WORLD WAR!

- OMFG IT'S DAVID TROUGHTON!! DAVID! ::swoons:: He has a lovely voice, you know. & very pretty hair. & sigh, he does look quite a bit like his father.

- JAMIE! JAMIE! ::holds onto him:: Let him go, please!

- I.L.Y. CARSTAIRS.

- Random fashion note five: I like the hole in Two's trousers.

- No, no, David, don't give him his monocle - shit, he did! & I think he's been hypnotised . . . again. Dammit. ::sighs::

- The War Chief, I have to say, is pretty good at what he does

- UNF, PAT'S FOREHEAD. THAT was pretty & unexpected! ::giggles::

- LOLZ, ZOE IN A WORLD WAR I UNIFORM . . . o how cute!

- ::hearts Carstairs even more:: & Jamie's staying with Two, despite what He's just been put through. There are no boundaries to what he can be, or his bravery.

- FUCK YOU FOR HYPNOTISING THE PRETTY & ADORABLE DAVID TROUGHTON! ::kicks::

- O, come on - remember! ::shakeshake::

- Ooo - can I be extra-shallow & say that David sure is cute in a fistfight? & with his hair all mussed?

- Random fashion note number six, cross-reference with David Troughton fangirling: David clearly inherited his father's floppy hair - & he wears it just as well!

- TWO & COMPANY ARE IN GAS MASKS! Are you my daddy?

- Random fashion note seven: Jamie, with his floppy hair, wears that uniform hat very well! Not sure on the coat, but the hat, yes!

The War Games - Episode Seven

- Two waves the white flag of surrender - or truce, as he says.

- HA! IN YOUR FACES, ASSHATS! TWO >>>>>> ALL YOU ALL! ::waves pompoms::

- So they're now in the Roman zone - this is SO weird . . .

- O LOOK. ROMANS.

- Now they appear to be back in the World War I zone . . . WHAT NEXT TO A MACHINE GUN?!

- Unexpected!Revolutionary!War!Soldier taking out a World War I soldier . . . awesome!

- CARSTAIRS, WHY SO FUCKING AWESOME? ::tacklehugs::

- HAHA, BITCHES CAN'T KILL TWO IF THEY WANT THEIR MIND PROBE BACK!

- What are you, a record player? HE'S NOT SENDING HELP, TWIT.

- Good thinking, Zoe-girl. ♥

- TWO > THE UNIVERSE. THAT IS ALL. In the zombie apocalypse, I claim Two for my team, got it?

- Ooo, Carstairs can speak French! Quite a learned man. ::sparkles::

- FUCKERS, LET GO OF MY DOCTOR! ::pounces like Leela::

The War Games - Episode Eight

- You know, if Leela were with Two & the rest of the resistance, there would be many dead guards around. Just a thought.

- Okay, we have a renegade Time Lord, possibly two playing this game & men who seem like unconverted Cybermen with all their talk of logic & such. Um . . .

- Screw. You. Two's held out against worse sorts of torture. He can hold out against yours.

- Carstairs is win. I love him. ::draws big hearts::

- Wow . . . Jamie's in charge of action of the château - Jamie . . . I'm really proud of you. ::hugs him::

- Now the War Chief & the Doctor . . . they're talking again. As friends. Or rather, enemies who knew each other as friends once.

- The War Chief seems to know jack shit about who the real vicious races in the galaxy are - Daleks. Cybermen. Sontarans. They would have faired better in this game than humans.

- 'Seems to have rather privative ideas about women knowing their place.'

'Has he now? Sounds like a nice chap!'

::pokes Jamie for that & hugs Zoe::

- Well, hello there, Jamie! Look at you all kitted out like a twentieth century soldier!

- The Doctor & the War Chief - they aren't, I suppose, but they are very much like the Doctor & the Master.

- Speaking of which, I'm now nearly done with the story, & I still haven't formed an opinion as to if the War Chief is an early version of the Master. I . . . I just don't know. The Master & the Doctor, as we all know, aren't the only renegade Time Lords to have ever existed - there's the Rani, the Meddling Monk, Iris Wildthyme & most likely more - who says that that there aren't more renegades like the Master out there? He doesn't have the Gallifreyan monopoly on evil, I think - so who's to say that he has to be the Master?

In a more meta-type of comment, I wouldn't discount the War Chief as being a possible or even direct inspiration for the Master, much like I don't discount the Robomen of The Dalek Invasion of Earth as being a possible source of inspiration for the Cybermen later on. So right now - I don't think the War Chief & the Master are one in the same, but more that one inspired the other, in certain ways.

- Two . . . you DIDN'T. No. You FUCKING DIDN'T. Please, tell me you didn't just sell your own friends out to save your own life . . . you wouldn't do that. Would you?

The War Games - Episode Nine

- Two . . . you - NO. I WON'T BELIEVE IT. I FUCKING WON'T UNTIL HE ADMITS IT OF HIS OWN FREE WILL. But it's totally possible he slept with the War Chief.

- . . . he's kind of grabbing on Two now. BITCH THAT'S JAMIE'S PROPERTY!

- Jamie's being like me - he won't believe Two would betray him & the others. & I have a feeling that, like me, Jamie wouldn't believe otherwise until Two said it himself.

- I love Two's cockiness. It's terribly sexy on him.

- Alright, I haven't said it yet, but we're on the next to last episode & I have to - WHERE THE FUCK DID LADY JENNIFER GO? She just disappeared! Did she leave, or did she just disappear randomly?

- O, Two. BB, you goin' get your ASS kicked around by everyone in that room!

- JAMIE SAVED HIM! Jamie saved him from being beaten to death by a mob! JAMIE! You are loyal to him, aren't you - WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING TO JAMIE GODDAMMIT?! ::grabs Two by the throat::

- O! O! ::lets go of Two's throat:: He & Jamie were faking! Jamie's still Jamie & Two - Two's not going to recondition anyone!

- O, THE WAR CHIEF JUST GOT BUSTED!

- 'Yes! I fix her - and you nearly fixed me!'

::giggles:: Aww, Two.

- Two doesn't want to rule a galaxy - he wants to see it! It's something someone like the Master & the War Chief wouldn't understand.

- Lots of shooty-shooty bang bang!

- Okay . . . seeing the War Chief look so . . . scared, for lack of a better word - it absolutely chills me.

- They - they killed the War Chief! But wait - if he's a Time Lord, why isn't he regenerating? Is he waiting? Or is he so dead that he can't regenerate.

- NO. PLEASE. THIS CAN'T BE GOODBYE. Doctor - please, not goodbye.

- O! Lady Jennifer's back in the 1917 zone? & Carstairs wants to find her! Aww.

- 'FOR ONCE, JAMIE, DO AS YOU'RE TOLD!'

Two . . . you just yelled at Jamie. You actually yelled at him. ::cowers in a corner::

- I - well, here's were we end with Carstairs. He was a very good fellow. & I wish him all the luck in the world to find Lady Jennifer. & I think he will.

The War Games - Episode Ten

- & it's Jamie McCrimmon who helps Two break the force field. While simultaneously grabbing his arse.

- The way Two explains his people . . . I can see why the Doctor left. I - I would too, I think. How terribly boring the Time Lords must be, if they do nothing but sit & observe all their lives.

- FUCK OFF - SUSAN BROKE ALL OF YOUR LAWS AS WELL! YOU HAVEN'T PULLED HER AWAY FROM DAVID TO RUIN HER LIFE & FORCE HER OWN REGENERATION!

- You FORCED him to! Damn the whole lot of you!

- Even to a Time Lord, Jamie is snappy & demands an answer. But not even Two dares to let him continue.

- What do you Time Lords care for human life? You only watch & observe, you do nothing to help - only the Doctor ever has. You lot would just watch the human race fall completely & not lift a finger.

- WAIT. The War Lord brought reinforcements? To GALLIFREY? Fucking hell. Desperation. The War Lord has it.

- Dematerialised? Like in the Zagreus audio? O, no.

- 'I not only admit them - I am proud of them!'

- Damn your laws. & your trials. If it hadn't been for the Doctor & Susan, & all who travelled with him, the universe would be a dead, lifeless place, with nothing for you to observe!

- At least ONE other Time Lord has two true hearts.

- To the end - it's Jamie & Zoe who won't let Two give up or lose all hope.

- 'I'll won't forget you, you know.'

'I won't forget you.'

- 'Will we ever meet again?'

'Again? Now, Zoe. You and I know that time is relative, isn't it?'

- & they're gone. With one final wave & holding hands . . . they're gone.

- Tanya!

- 'Are you sure you're all right?'

'Oh, yes. I thought I'd forgotten something important, but it's nothing.'

- JAMIE. I . . . he - he could die. He could die & the Time Lords don't even CARE, do they? No, of course they don't. Jamie's just a footnote mislaid. They just set him back down in 1745 where he could die any second. Humane? I'd hardly agree.

- But Two - you're proud of him, aren't you? You believe that he'll survive, don't you? And you're always right.

--------

It was a brilliant story. A splendid send-off for Two. Well written, even with the padded bits.

I would say more, but I think I'm a bit too tearful to actually type anything of coherence.

I . . . I just can't say anything. It was too much in the end.

Previous recaps
The Dalek Invasion of Earth
The Time Meddler
The War Machines
The Smugglers
The Tenth Planet
The Power of the Daleks
The Highlanders
The Underwater Menace
The Moonbase
The Macra Terror
The Faceless Ones
The Evil of the Daleks
The Evil of the Daleks - audio version
The Tomb of the Cybermen
The Great Space Elevator (Victoria's Companion Chronicle)
The Abominable Snowmen - audio & serial
The Ice Warriors - audio
The Enemy of the World - audio & serial
The Web of Fear - audio & serial
Fury From the Deep - audio
The Wheel in Space - audio & serial
Fear of the Daleks (Zoe's Companion Chronicle)
The Dominators
The Mind Robber
The Invasion
The Krotons
The Seeds of Death
The Space Pirates - audio & serial

Comments

[nentari.livejournal.com]

ZOE'S WEARING A MAC! WHAT? Zoe, no skirts?
Yes, this is an unusual look for her - besides the mac, she's also wearing long trousers and a very un-Zoe-esque shirt. While an odd choice for her, I feel it also fits with her tendency to think of clothes as practical (which was her complaint about the Dulcian outfit she was forced to wear) and makes me think that perhaps she noticed from the readings that the place they had landed on was cold and decided to dress appropriately.
(And even so, the place way much too cold in real life for that outfit - Wendy Padbury spent the whole time they were on location suffering from the cold, and her assistant had to hand her a huge fur coat and a bottle of brandy in between takes to stop her from freezing; I can't imagine how it would have been like if she had been wearing the PVC paper outfit for this.)

The major recognised Jamie as a Highlander - that's a first!
Well, there were Highlander battalions (with kilted uniforms) fighting on World War I, so it's logical he'd be identified as such.

Random fashion note: I'm liking Jamie's fab jacket! Goes well with his kilt, I think!
You do mean Packer's jacket, don't you? *grins* Because that was originally the jacket Peter Halliday had in The Invasion, and which Frazer nicked from the BBC wardrobe for this story.

OMG, TWO KISSED ZOE ON THE HEAD! AWWW! ::wibbles & cries::
I told you there was a kiss.

I always thought Wendy Padbury had been pregnant at the time of this serial, which is why she wore the mac, but nope, I don't see such!
No, I think the pregnancy-dictating-fashion matter is with the bubblewrap outfit from The Five Doctors. Well, it's just a rumour, actually (I haven't found any actual evidence of her being pregnant at the time), but it seems that the bubblewrap was added to conceal her pregnancy, as it was way too noticeable with the blue catsuit she had underneath.

Jamie's got a stick!
*uses appropriate icon*

HA! Zoe Heriot, intergalactic supergirl, taking out officers with flower vases! ::grins:: O, Zoe. ♥
I love the face she makes. Yet another moment I think should be iconized for posterity.

& I just noted - Derrick Sherwin's wife is playing Lady Jennifer!
Yes, there was a bit of nepostism in Doctor Who in this time - though I don't think it was a bad thing since the people involved were so awesome in their roles. Besides Jane Sherwin and David Troughton in this, there's also producer Peter Bryant's wife Shirley Cooklin as Kaftan in Tomb, director Douglas Camfield's wife Sheila Dunn as both the Ministry of Defence's phone operator and the computer Zoe destroys in The Invasion as well as scientist Petra Williams in Inferno, writer Doug Houghton's wife Pik Sen-Lim as Captain Chin Lee in The Mind of Evil, and Roger Delgado's wife Kismet as the Spider Queen in Planet of the Spiders. All of them top performances, and in most cases written especially for them (in fact, in Shirley Cooklin's case her husband didn't want her to be Kaftan with fear of the accusations of nepotism, but Gerry Davis and Kit Pedler were most insistent that it HAD to be her).

LOLZ, TUNING FORK REFERENCE! ::snorts::
See? This is what I love about the tuning fork joke - it traumatized Jamie so much he had to tease Two about it in a later serial. The first time(s) I watched The War Games I didn't get the joke, but after listening to the Space Pirates audio I cannot see this scene without giggling.

I also quite love Carstairs, have I not mentioned that? He's kind of badass.
Both Carstairs and Lady Jennifer are great examples of Companions-That-Never-Were. The Doctor couldn't have asked for better allies in this adventure.

O, maybe this one's not as good as it as Smythe is . . . he remembers the sonic screwdriver!
Smythe had glasses, and Von Weich has a monocle. Methinks that makes the mind controlling half as strong. :P

[nentari.livejournal.com]

O, wait, they're not Confederates, they're Northern soldiers. & ahem, sirs, Jamie is Scottish - not English. British would be more apt, if you insist on being pedantic. But he's not English!
Well, this being a Civil War soldier, he's bound to make generalizations - as they say, nobody's neutral in a civil war, and the difference between Scottish or English (or even putting the two nationalities together as British) will be unimportant to them.

Well, the Southern soldiers are a bit politer - up until they were re-hypnotised! ::glare::
That's mainly for the same reason - the English supported the South for economical reasons, and so they're bound to see British people as allies. Well, until Von Weich manipulates them to the point where they probably are unable to recognize accents, that is.

Random fashion note three: Jamie's SIDEBURNS! They're bordering on QUITE wild now!
Well, I did tell you that Two's sideburns had emigrated to Jamie's face after The Space Pirates...

For some reason, Lady Jennifer reminds me a little of Barbara Wright. It's hard to say why, but she does a bit.
Yes, you're right! They're both the same age, and have the same sense of practicality and logic. Plus I can easily see Lady Jennifer smash Daleks with her ambulance.

O! There's a Highlander soldier among the resistance fighters! I saw his sporran & kilt.
I watched that episode with the commentaries on last night, and Frazer flipped with excitement when he saw the Highlander. Of course, as I mentioned, there were Highlander regiments fighting in WW1, but since there's a war zone from Jamie's own time period there's the chance this guy could be a contemporary of his. Frazer said he wished there had been a scene between the two of them, to which Derrick Sherwin jokingly added, "You could have held a battle of Scottish accents!"

I LOVE LADY JENNIFER. ENOUGH SAID. & she totally called Jamie out on his 'you're just a woman' shtick! ::grins:: I love Jamie, but I love it even more when he gets called out on his 'you're just a woman' bullshit. Pleases the riot grrrl in me.
Well, don't blame poor Jamie - this dialogue was only an attempt by Terry and Mac Hulke to get rid of Lady Jennifer. She was meant to go with him and Russell (and, indeed, Terry and Mac had written the first draft of the following episodes with her present) but for some reason that's never explained in any of the extras (and which none of the people doing the commentaries could remember) she had to be removed. Frazer suggested that Derrick insisted Jane should leave by this point because he wanted her to go home to cook his dinner and iron his shirts. :P

Ooo - can I be extra-shallow & say that David sure is cute in a fistfight? & with his hair all mussed?
David is cute - period. *grins* Though I have to say nothing beats the face he makes after shooting Von Weich when it comes to adorableness.

TWO & COMPANY ARE IN GAS MASKS! Are you my daddy?
Let me link you to a macro I did for ihasatardis over a year ago.

Ooo, Carstairs can speak French! Quite a learned man. ::sparkles::
I'd like to point out that the French soldier he's talking to is played by a guy called Peter Craze. I'm sure you know his brother Michael...

The War Chief seems to know jack shit about who the real vicious races in the galaxy are - Daleks. Cybermen. Sontarans. They would have faired better in this game than humans.
They'd also be a bit harder to control, I think.

::pokes Jamie for that & hugs Zoe::
Aw, but he makes that cutesy face of his when he says it! And Zoe gets her revenge right away.

Well, hello there, Jamie! Look at you all kitted out like a twentieth century soldier!
I think he's auditioning for a vacant position as a member of the Villange People. He's... the Scottish Bandit! ;P

[nentari.livejournal.com]

Speaking of which, I'm now nearly done with the story, & I still haven't formed an opinion as to if the War Chief is an early version of the Master. I . . . I just don't know.
Yes, I have my doubts too, which is why I'm always alternating between "he is"/"he isn't". On the one hand, I agree with you that there's quite a considerable amount of renegade Time Lords and it wouldn't be impossible for him to be just one more; on the other, he and Two seem to have the same "old married couple" chemistry of the Pertwee/Delgado and Davison/Ainley teams.

Jamie's being like me - he won't believe Two would betray him & the others. & I have a feeling that, like me, Jamie wouldn't believe otherwise until Two said it himself.
Indeed. *pets him* And what's more, Zoe doesn't believe it either, and Carstairs is more than willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Alright, I haven't said it yet, but we're on the next to last episode & I have to - WHERE THE FUCK DID LADY JENNIFER GO? She just disappeared! Did she leave, or did she just disappear randomly?
As I said before, Terry and Mac had to remove her from their already planned-out scripts for reasons unknown. As far as we know, she's still taking care of the wounded resistance fighters.

They - they killed the War Chief! But wait - if he's a Time Lord, why isn't he regenerating? Is he waiting? Or is he so dead that he can't regenerate.
It took a while for Three to regenerate into Four as well, so if he did regenerate it was after the War Lord's men moved his body. The part of fandom that believes he's the Master firmly believes that he turned into Delgado!Master after he was moved, and that he somehow managed to escape in one of the SIDRATs while the Time Lords were busy chasing Two.

Two . . . you just yelled at Jamie. You actually yelled at him. ::cowers in a corner::
He's desperate and in a state of panic. I can't really blame him, knowing what happens next.

I - well, here's were we end with Carstairs. He was a very good fellow. & I wish him all the luck in the world to find Lady Jennifer. & I think he will.
Sadly, he dematerialized right before our eyes, so the Time Lords caught him and wiped his memory straight away. I doubt he'll find Lady Jennifer now, since he will not remember her, unless by a very fortunate accident.

FUCK OFF - SUSAN BROKE ALL OF YOUR LAWS AS WELL! YOU HAVEN'T PULLED HER AWAY FROM DAVID TO RUIN HER LIFE & FORCE HER OWN REGENERATION!
Well, by leaving Susan behind in 22nd century Earth, the Doctor has ensured that the Time Lords will not find her - though I fear the possibility that they have managed to locate her just before the Time War. *wibbles*

At least ONE other Time Lord has two true hearts.
Yes. *pets Emo* Notice that he's not with the other two when they recapture the trio and force them to say goodbye - and I bet he was the one who convinced the others of sending him off to exile instead of giving him a punishment similar to that of the War Lord.

& they're gone. With one final wave & holding hands . . . they're gone.
My eyes started to water the moment I read that line. I'm such a sap.

Tanya!
I love that they managed to bring back Tanya. Not only has she always nice to Zoe (I remember her reaction when Leo compared Zoe to a computer), making me relieved in the knowledge that at least she'll still be among friends, but it's a nice touch of continuity.

JAMIE. I . . . he - he could die. He could die & the Time Lords don't even CARE, do they? No, of course they don't. Jamie's just a footnote mislaid. They just set him back down in 1745 where he could die any second. Humane? I'd hardly agree.
In the Time Lords' perspective, Jamie dying in his own time is irrelevant, as it won't break any of their laws. Bastards.

But Two - you're proud of him, aren't you? You believe that he'll survive, don't you? And you're always right.
Yes, Two's laugh fills me with hope for Jamie's future. He really believes Jamie will be all right.

*pets you*

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

Yes, this is an unusual look for her - besides the mac, she's also wearing long trousers and a very un-Zoe-esque shirt. While an odd choice for her, I feel it also fits with her tendency to think of clothes as practical (which was her complaint about the Dulcian outfit she was forced to wear) and makes me think that perhaps she noticed from the readings that the place they had landed on was cold and decided to dress appropriately.

Hmm - that's a good point & would be a very Zoe-esque thing to do. Though I'm not sure if her other outfits would fall into the same line of thought . . . but I don't mind; they were so lovely to look at. :P

(And even so, the place way much too cold in real life for that outfit - Wendy Padbury spent the whole time they were on location suffering from the cold, and her assistant had to hand her a huge fur coat and a bottle of brandy in between takes to stop her from freezing; I can't imagine how it would have been like if she had been wearing the PVC paper outfit for this.)


I can SO relate - my arts school used to be at the top of one of the windiest spots in the city & therefore, in winter, it was positively FROZEN. & it would POUR down when it rained - ugh, messy messy. & of course, it's always pretty cold here, so in my kind of clothes, I'm FREEZING half the time. ARGH.

Well, there were Highlander battalions (with kilted uniforms) fighting on World War I, so it's logical he'd be identified as such.

I actually never knew that - they never tell you anything GOOD in school lessons, really. I got to learn something new! :D

You do mean Packer's jacket, don't you? *grins* Because that was originally the jacket Peter Halliday had in The Invasion, and which Frazer nicked from the BBC wardrobe for this story.

LOLZ, YES. :P But Frazer made it look sexier, yes?. So I chose to, erm . . . leave out that fact.

I told you there was a kiss.

& it was SO sweet. Even though it was at such a sad moment.

No, I think the pregnancy-dictating-fashion matter is with the bubblewrap outfit from The Five Doctors. Well, it's just a rumour, actually (I haven't found any actual evidence of her being pregnant at the time), but it seems that the bubblewrap was added to conceal her pregnancy, as it was way too noticeable with the blue catsuit she had underneath.

Prior to this, I'd only ever heard that she'd been wearing the mac because she'd been pregnant at the time (& from the few clips & caps that I'd seen, it looked like she might have been), but she does take it off in some scenes & no, she definitely wasn't pregnant then. I'll try & have a closer look at the bubble-wrap outfit when I get to The Five Doctors.

*uses appropriate icon*

Jamie was all sexy & badass with the stick! ::izshallow:: MORE STICKS FOR JAMIE PLZ.

I love the face she makes. Yet another moment I think should be iconized for posterity.

AGREED. & I ♥ our little intergalactic supergirl. :D

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

& because I broke my first comment . . .

Yes, there was a bit of nepostism in Doctor Who in this time - though I don't think it was a bad thing since the people involved were so awesome in their roles. Besides Jane Sherwin and David Troughton in this, there's also producer Peter Bryant's wife Shirley Cooklin as Kaftan in Tomb, director Douglas Camfield's wife Sheila Dunn as both the Ministry of Defence's phone operator and the computer Zoe destroys in The Invasion as well as scientist Petra Williams in Inferno, writer Doug Houghton's wife Pik Sen-Lim as Captain Chin Lee in The Mind of Evil, and Roger Delgado's wife Kismet as the Spider Queen in Planet of the Spiders. All of them top performances, and in most cases written especially for them (in fact, in Shirley Cooklin's case her husband didn't want her to be Kaftan with fear of the accusations of nepotism, but Gerry Davis and Kit Pedler were most insistent that it HAD to be her).

O my! I only knew that Shirley Cooklin was married to Peter Bryant at the time she was in Tomb of the Cybermen & of course, about David & Jane, but I had no idea about the rest! (& now I HAVE to look at Planet of the Spiders!

See? This is what I love about the tuning fork joke - it traumatized Jamie so much he had to tease Two about it in a later serial.

Poor sweetheart. ::pets him while trying not to laugh::

Both Carstairs and Lady Jennifer are great examples of Companions-That-Never-Were. The Doctor couldn't have asked for better allies in this adventure.

YES, YES & YES. ::nods:: Like Astrid & Miss Kelly, among others! :D

Smythe had glasses, and Von Weich has a monocle. Methinks that makes the mind controlling half as strong. :P

::giggly:: This actually makes quite good sense!

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

Well, this being a Civil War soldier, he's bound to make generalizations - as they say, nobody's neutral in a civil war, and the difference between Scottish or English (or even putting the two nationalities together as British) will be unimportant to them.

Hee, I know - I was being a bit pedantic myself - & being a twenty-first century girl like Zoe, had to point that out. ;)

That's mainly for the same reason - the English supported the South for economical reasons, and so they're bound to see British people as allies. Well, until Von Weich manipulates them to the point where they probably are unable to recognize accents, that is.

Now that I don't think they told me in lessons either - but it suddenly makes the (not very good, but that would be your call!) Eight audio Minuet in Hell more sensible, somehow. (but the accents are still FAIL.)

Well, I did tell you that Two's sideburns had emigrated to Jamie's face after The Space Pirates...

& you were right! ::goes to find her hair scissors::

Yes, you're right! They're both the same age, and have the same sense of practicality and logic. Plus I can easily see Lady Jennifer smash Daleks with her ambulance.

I would almost wonder if that was purposely done, but nah, too small a chance, yes? But you're right abut Lady Jennifer - she'd be glad to smash Daleks with her ambulance! :D

I watched that episode with the commentaries on last night, and Frazer flipped with excitement when he saw the Highlander. Of course, as I mentioned, there were Highlander regiments fighting in WW1, but since there's a war zone from Jamie's own time period there's the chance this guy could be a contemporary of his. Frazer said he wished there had been a scene between the two of them, to which Derrick Sherwin jokingly added, "You could have held a battle of Scottish accents!"

OMG! ::giggles:: YES, WHY COULDN'T THEY HAVE HAD A SCENE TOGETHER?! If David got his own moments of awesome, Jamie should have been talking to his fellow Highlander!

Well, don't blame poor Jamie - this dialogue was only an attempt by Terry and Mac Hulke to get rid of Lady Jennifer. She was meant to go with him and Russell (and, indeed, Terry and Mac had written the first draft of the following episodes with her present) but for some reason that's never explained in any of the extras (and which none of the people doing the commentaries could remember) she had to be removed. Frazer suggested that Derrick insisted Jane should leave by this point because he wanted her to go home to cook his dinner and iron his shirts. :P

::waves finger, lets mouth hang open for a bit, then closes it:: Well . . . THAT'S ODD.

David is cute - period. *grins* Though I have to say nothing beats the face he makes after shooting Von Weich when it comes to adorableness.

YES YES! Aww, David. ♥♥

& your MACRO! WITH PAT & HIS SEXY EXPRESSION, ZOMG I LOVE LOVE LOVE. ::flaily hands:: I can't believe I didn't note how rather sexy his face was at that moment - it was! :D

I'd like to point out that the French soldier he's talking to is played by a guy called Peter Craze. I'm sure you know his brother Michael...

OMG. ::huge grin:: Yes, I think I do, now that you mention it . . .

They'd also be a bit harder to control, I think.

They might be, possibly, but they might have found a way around that, theoretically. But perhaps not - after all, Five says that Cybermen & Daleks were never allowed in the Death Zone on Gallifrey - 'They play too well!'

Aw, but he makes that cutesy face of his when he says it! And Zoe gets her revenge right away.

He does, but still he gets a poking from the riot grrrl! :P

I think he's auditioning for a vacant position as a member of the Villange People. He's... the Scottish Bandit! ;P

::dies::

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

Yes, I have my doubts too, which is why I'm always alternating between "he is"/"he isn't". On the one hand, I agree with you that there's quite a considerable amount of renegade Time Lords and it wouldn't be impossible for him to be just one more; on the other, he and Two seem to have the same "old married couple" chemistry of the Pertwee/Delgado and Davison/Ainley teams.

It's an INCREDIBLY hard thing to call, since there's so much evidence that can point in either direction, really - they DO have the same chemistry that later incarnations of the Doctor had with the Master, but he COULD also be just another renegade that the Doctor knew while in school. (& while I hate to stereotype all Prydonians again, if he was in the same house as the Doctor, then there would be a higher chance of him being another renegade, but not necessarily the Master.) Even now, I still don't really know how to call it - I say he isn't, but I still have doubts.

Indeed. *pets him* And what's more, Zoe doesn't believe it either, and Carstairs is more than willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Yes - I suppose that none of them really did believe Two would turn on them so easily - he would have a reason for doing what he did & it wouldn't be to help the War Chief.

As I said before, Terry and Mac had to remove her from their already planned-out scripts for reasons unknown. As far as we know, she's still taking care of the wounded resistance fighters.

. . . okay, I'll buy that. Just to settle my bothered-ness about not knowing where she really went.

It took a while for Three to regenerate into Four as well, so if he did regenerate it was after the War Lord's men moved his body. The part of fandom that believes he's the Master firmly believes that he turned into Delgado!Master after he was moved, and that he somehow managed to escape in one of the SIDRATs while the Time Lords were busy chasing Two.

. . . ARGH, THIS MAKES A LOT OF SENSE AS WELL. ::grabs head:: & also, Seven's regeneration into Eight took a while as well, but those were more extenuating circumstances. ::sighs helplessly::

He's desperate and in a state of panic. I can't really blame him, knowing what happens next.

Yes, very true - but it was still so . . . shocking. He never yelled at Jamie. ::wibbly lip::

Sadly, he dematerialized right before our eyes, so the Time Lords caught him and wiped his memory straight away. I doubt he'll find Lady Jennifer now, since he will not remember her, unless by a very fortunate accident.

::begins to cry:: & she won't remember him either, will she?

Well, by leaving Susan behind in 22nd century Earth, the Doctor has ensured that the Time Lords will not find her - though I fear the possibility that they have managed to locate her just before the Time War. *wibbles*

Yes, as we talked about all that time ago - but how would they have found her before the Time War? Unless she'd built a TARDIS of her own, I'm not sure how they could have done that. Unless it was by her DNA or brainwaves or something like that. Or . . . worse. A lot worse.

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

& because . . . well, you know. :D

Yes. *pets Emo* Notice that he's not with the other two when they recapture the trio and force them to say goodbye - and I bet he was the one who convinced the others of sending him off to exile instead of giving him a punishment similar to that of the War Lord.

I hadn't - but you're right. He seemed to be the only one who had two CARING hearts out of the six beating there.

My eyes started to water the moment I read that line. I'm such a sap.

I was getting a bit teary-eyed - & still am - just READING & ANSWERING your comment! You're in good company. ♥

I love that they managed to bring back Tanya. Not only has she always nice to Zoe (I remember her reaction when Leo compared Zoe to a computer), making me relieved in the knowledge that at least she'll still be among friends, but it's a nice touch of continuity.

Agreed - Tanya & Gemma (though sadly, she'd have been dead by then) were always nice to her. Which, sadly & I REALLY don't like saying or admitting to this, but it gives her an advantage Jamie doesn't get - she has friends & people who care about her, as well as a place that needs her mind & abilities. Jamie's in the middle of a war his people WON'T win, & he could even die after leaving Two & Zoe. Jamie has very little, by comparison. ::cries harder::

In the Time Lords' perspective, Jamie dying in his own time is irrelevant, as it won't break any of their laws. Bastards.

Civilisation & justice & all that other crap Two described his people as to Jamie & Zoe, in my eyes, is worth NOTHING without compassion & humanity to balance them. Nor is their gift of time travel if they never bother to use it to help the rest of the universe. They may as well not have it at all.

Yes, Two's laugh fills me with hope for Jamie's future. He really believes Jamie will be all right.

I like to think Jamie lived on, long after that, as best he could. & if he didn't see the Doctor again, perhaps he would become a great storyteller, but he'd never know how many of his stories were true.

::starts crying all over again & does more Jamie-esque clinging::

[nentari.livejournal.com]

Though I'm not sure if her other outfits would fall into the same line of thought . . .
Well, you could pretend that the miniskirts and hotpants were practical to run away from beasties. *grins* And you can't deny that the catsuit and the leather outfit are practical.

LOLZ, YES. :P But Frazer made it look sexier, yes?. So I chose to, erm . . . leave out that fact.
Yes, he made it sexier... and dirtier, since dirt and muck were falling over it all the time. :P

& it was SO sweet. Even though it was at such a sad moment.
Yes, indeed. :(

Prior to this, I'd only ever heard that she'd been wearing the mac because she'd been pregnant at the time (& from the few clips & caps that I'd seen, it looked like she might have been)
No, definitely not pregnant. The only times I've seen comments about her being pregnant during that story were jokes, so I knew it wasn't true.

I'll try & have a closer look at the bubble-wrap outfit when I get to The Five Doctors.
It's not at all noticeable with all the bubblewrap all over her - particularly because the costume people also gave her a belt that makes it impossible to notice if she's really pregnant or not. If she was, I think it must have been of only three or four months, since it would have been difficult to conceal it so well even with the bubblewrap if her pregnancy was more advanced than that, and if it was earlier then it wouldn't have been necessary to hide it at all.

Jamie was all sexy & badass with the stick! ::izshallow:: MORE STICKS FOR JAMIE PLZ.
*grins*

[nentari.livejournal.com]

O my! I only knew that Shirley Cooklin was married to Peter Bryant at the time she was in Tomb of the Cybermen & of course, about David & Jane, but I had no idea about the rest!
Oh, and I forgot to add: besides playing Petra in Inferno and the phone operator and the computer in The Invasion, Sheila Dunn also took some photos at the last minute to replace the ones in Isobel Watkins' living room, which were stolen from the set (the incident is mentioned in the documentary featured in the Invasion DVD, where they show a picture of Sheila in Inferno). I have to say, I've watched those scenes many times before, and I cannot tell when the photos are the originals featuring Sally Faulkner as Isobel, and when they're the replacements with Sheila. So, in a way, we can say that Douglas Canfield made his wife play three different parts in The Invasion: the phone operator, the computer, and Isobel v.2.0!

& now I HAVE to look at Planet of the Spiders!
Oh, Kismet Delgado is amazing! You can never see her, of course, since she only provided the Spider Queen's voice, but she's chilling and effective, and makes me want to write Delgado!Master/Spider Queen! :P
(Also, when I first watched The Fires of Pompeii and heard the words "There's something on your back," she was the first thing that came to mind.)
And like I said, if you want to do some more Doctor Who sessions in the near future, I suggest you watch The Green Death, Invasion of the Dinosaurs and Planet of the Spiders side by side, since they're all connected to each other in terms of plot - not to mention that there's a certain character who has an interesting development in those three stories.

Poor sweetheart. ::pets him while trying not to laugh::
Now I must find a way for Fourteen to get her hands on a tuning fork - either that, or an excuse for Jamie to crack a joke about it again. :P

[nentari.livejournal.com]

Now that I don't think they told me in lessons either - but it suddenly makes the (not very good, but that would be your call!) Eight audio Minuet in Hell more sensible, somehow. (but the accents are still FAIL.)
I haven't listened to that audio yet, so I can't really say. *shrugs* But I'm not surprised this isn't explained at schools, since it doesn't seem to be an aspect of the Civil War people might feel is relevant. Terrance Dicks seems to have been the only person in the audio commentaries who was aware of the fact.

I would almost wonder if that was purposely done, but nah, too small a chance, yes?
Yes, I think it was more of a coincidence than anything else.

OMG! ::giggles:: YES, WHY COULDN'T THEY HAVE HAD A SCENE TOGETHER?! If David got his own moments of awesome, Jamie should have been talking to his fellow Highlander!
Instead, he got to fraternize with a Redcoat!

::waves finger, lets mouth hang open for a bit, then closes it:: Well . . . THAT'S ODD.
I think the problem must have been the enormous amount of characters they were playing with already, and that Terry and Mac to come up with ten episodes in the time usually given to write only one, but still... I'm surprised the story came out so well, with all the problems the writers were faced with.

& your MACRO! WITH PAT & HIS SEXY EXPRESSION, ZOMG I LOVE LOVE LOVE. ::flaily hands:: I can't believe I didn't note how rather sexy his face was at that moment - it was! :D
it's adorable, yes. And then the way his hair flops when he removes the gas mask... Wow.

OMG. ::huge grin:: Yes, I think I do, now that you mention it . . .
I like to think that that soldier later on married an English woman, and they had a daughter who eventually married a fellow with the surname Jackson. :D
(Peter Craze was another case of nepotism, by the way. While he was playing Ben, Michael fell in love with production assistant Edwina Verner, whom he later married (she'll be credited as "Edwina Craze" in Four's Terror of the Zygons), and who suggested her brother-in-law Peter for the role of Dupont in The War Games because "he spoke French fluently" (though anyone who knows the language well can tell you that he made some obvious mistakes in pronounciation).

But perhaps not - after all, Five says that Cybermen & Daleks were never allowed in the Death Zone on Gallifrey - 'They play too well!'
Exactly. I think they would probably turn the Aliens into mince meat before they could ever try anything - either that, or they'd pretend to play along (Power of the Daleks, anyone?) until they could turn the situation to their favour.

[nentari.livejournal.com]

& while I hate to stereotype all Prydonians again, if he was in the same house as the Doctor, then there would be a higher chance of him being another renegade, but not necessarily the Master.
Yes, although a generalization, that should also be taken into account.

& also, Seven's regeneration into Eight took a while as well, but those were more extenuating circumstances. ::sighs helplessly::
Yes, Seven was under the effect of anesthetics that slowed down the regeneration and almost stopped it from happening. In Three's case no such explanation is given (though the radiation eating up his body might have been responsible for the delay), and if it wasn't for something spoilery I shall not mention that helped speed it up, it would probably have taken even longer than it did. It should also be pointed out something that the people discussing the many regenerations in the feature on the subject from the War Games DVD mention: while most Doctors are completely conscious when the time comes (apart from One and Six, who are unconscious), Three (and, in a way, Seven) is the only Doctor who actually dies before regenerating.

::begins to cry:: & she won't remember him either, will she?
No, I'm afraid not. :(

Yes, as we talked about all that time ago - but how would they have found her before the Time War? Unless she'd built a TARDIS of her own, I'm not sure how they could have done that.
Maybe they created another Time Scoop and used it to locate and capture Susan and all the other renegades. Or the EDA Legacy of the Daleks (which manages to link The Daleks' Invasion of Earth and The Deadly Assassin) happened, making her a noticeable target for the Time Lords - but that's another EDA that makes me glad these books are AU, even though I found it to be well-written, so I'll just pretend it never happened.

[nentari.livejournal.com]

I hadn't - but you're right. He seemed to be the only one who had two CARING hearts out of the six beating there.
Which is interesting in terms of meta, since the actor who played Hardcore once played the Doctor in a stage play (with Wendy Padbury playing a companion named Jenny).

Which, sadly & I REALLY don't like saying or admitting to this, but it gives her an advantage Jamie doesn't get - she has friends & people who care about her, as well as a place that needs her mind & abilities. Jamie's in the middle of a war his people WON'T win, & he could even die after leaving Two & Zoe. Jamie has very little, by comparison. ::cries harder::
Yes, you're right there. His friends and allies are all aboard the Annabelle by now, and it will be very hard (if not impossible) for him to reach them. Unless, of course, he was to meet someone willing to help him... Hem hem.

I like to think Jamie lived on, long after that, as best he could. & if he didn't see the Doctor again, perhaps he would become a great storyteller, but he'd never know how many of his stories were true.
As long as he doesn't survive the way it's described in the comics; someone posted scans of the story where he's reunited with Six and Peri in the Jamie community, and reading it broke my heart to tiny pieces.

::starts crying all over again & does more Jamie-esque clinging::
*offers warm cup of chocolate chai with milk*

[stellastars]

...One's epic serial Daleks' Master Plan, or, as I like to think of it, the serial where a hell of a lot of people die in it.

I just finished watching DMP last night and your name for it is so, so appropriate. *flails* I'll be posting my reactions... sometime in the next couple days!

Politely skipping your reactions for the time being, as I haven't seen War Games yet.

*hugs*

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

Which is interesting in terms of meta, since the actor who played Hardcore once played the Doctor in a stage play (with Wendy Padbury playing a companion named Jenny).

Wow . . . this fandom just TURNS IN ON ITSELF SO OFTEN, I SWEAR. :D

Yes, you're right there. His friends and allies are all aboard the Annabelle by now, and it will be very hard (if not impossible) for him to reach them. Unless, of course, he was to meet someone willing to help him... Hem hem.

Yes. ::sniffles:: But there's always someone willing to help such a brave fellow like Jamie, isn't there? ♥

As long as he doesn't survive the way it's described in the comics; someone posted scans of the story where he's reunited with Six and Peri in the Jamie community, and reading it broke my heart to tiny pieces.

I would ask for more, but the way you've spoke of it, I think it's best if I remain ignorant.

*offers warm cup of chocolate chai with milk*

::accepts happily & slowly begins to doze off::

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

Yes, although a generalization, that should also be taken into account.

True - though I think even Time Lords themselves prefer to make that generalization, alas.

Yes, Seven was under the effect of anesthetics that slowed down the regeneration and almost stopped it from happening. In Three's case no such explanation is given (though the radiation eating up his body might have been responsible for the delay), and if it wasn't for something spoilery I shall not mention that helped speed it up, it would probably have taken even longer than it did. It should also be pointed out something that the people discussing the many regenerations in the feature on the subject from the War Games DVD mention: while most Doctors are completely conscious when the time comes (apart from One and Six, who are unconscious), Three (and, in a way, Seven) is the only Doctor who actually dies before regenerating.

In a recent issue of DWM I got - it MIGHT be the one with the feature on Three in it, there was a really great article about regeneration & the Doctor's own regenerations. I admit, I haven't fully read it, but if it is Three's issue, I will - I need his episode guide for this week anyway.

No, I'm afraid not. :(

. . .

I REALLY HATE THIS ENDING, OKAY. ;____;

Maybe they created another Time Scoop and used it to locate and capture Susan and all the other renegades. Or the EDA Legacy of the Daleks (which manages to link The Daleks' Invasion of Earth and The Deadly Assassin) happened, making her a noticeable target for the Time Lords - but that's another EDA that makes me glad these books are AU, even though I found it to be well-written, so I'll just pretend it never happened.

O dear. D: When I said worse . . . I meant that they could have pulled it out of the Doctor by way of the mind probe, or possibly hypnosis, if the Master had been brought back at that point. (& I can easily imagine how sick a pleasure that would be for the Master to do that to the Doctor.) Or, the worst thing I could think of was that the CIA would force the Doctor to tell them where Susan was - so they could say that he'd betrayed her when they finally found her.

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

But I'm not surprised this isn't explained at schools, since it doesn't seem to be an aspect of the Civil War people might feel is relevant. Terrance Dicks seems to have been the only person in the audio commentaries who was aware of the fact.

::sighs:: THEY TAUGHT US NOTHING GOOD IN SCHOOL. EVER.

Yes, I think it was more of a coincidence than anything else.

Most likely, yes.

Instead, he got to fraternize with a Redcoat!

Which was equally kind of awesome (& WHO would have seen THAT coming?), but still - THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOUBLE THE SCOTTISH ACCENTS FOR JAMIE'S LAST SERIAL! ::poutyface::

I think the problem must have been the enormous amount of characters they were playing with already, and that Terry and Mac to come up with ten episodes in the time usually given to write only one, but still... I'm surprised the story came out so well, with all the problems the writers were faced with.

Yes, that's very possible - I know that was a small problem in The Five Doctors & why Susan & Turlough spend almost ALL of the serial in the TARDIS & when the Cybermen are planning to blow it up. Which was a bit sad, because I would have loved to see Susan do some action, like she never actually really GOT to do when she WAS with the Doctor, but at the same time, it's understandable. So I won't hold it against anyone. :D

it's adorable, yes. And then the way his hair flops when he removes the gas mask... Wow.

O.M.G. YES. YESPLZ. ::swoons::

I like to think that that soldier later on married an English woman, and they had a daughter who eventually married a fellow with the surname Jackson. :D

::approves of this quite happily::

(Peter Craze was another case of nepotism, by the way. While he was playing Ben, Michael fell in love with production assistant Edwina Verner, whom he later married (she'll be credited as "Edwina Craze" in Four's Terror of the Zygons), and who suggested her brother-in-law Peter for the role of Dupont in The War Games because "he spoke French fluently" (though anyone who knows the language well can tell you that he made some obvious mistakes in pronounciation).

I was just listening to the commentary of The War Machines - well, the first story, anyway - & I remember Anneke mentioning that when it reached the scene where Polly & Ben first meet - I thought it was an adorable story & of course, I LOVED listening to Anneke tell it. (I want to read her booooooks! But I don't think they're available in the States, sadly.)

Exactly. I think they would probably turn the Aliens into mince meat before they could ever try anything - either that, or they'd pretend to play along (Power of the Daleks, anyone?) until they could turn the situation to their favour.

Good point - even if they COULD find a way to control any of them, one of them would be bound to figure out a way of circumventing the aliens' control over them.

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

Oh, and I forgot to add: besides playing Petra in Inferno and the phone operator and the computer in The Invasion, Sheila Dunn also took some photos at the last minute to replace the ones in Isobel Watkins' living room, which were stolen from the set (the incident is mentioned in the documentary featured in the Invasion DVD, where they show a picture of Sheila in Inferno). I have to say, I've watched those scenes many times before, and I cannot tell when the photos are the originals featuring Sally Faulkner as Isobel, and when they're the replacements with Sheila. So, in a way, we can say that Douglas Canfield made his wife play three different parts in The Invasion: the phone operator, the computer, and Isobel v.2.0!

O! I remember hearing that as well (& giggling like crazy at it) & I completely forgot about that until you mentioned it! Bad me, very bad!

Oh, Kismet Delgado is amazing! You can never see her, of course, since she only provided the Spider Queen's voice, but she's chilling and effective, and makes me want to write Delgado!Master/Spider Queen! :P
(Also, when I first watched The Fires of Pompeii and heard the words "There's something on your back," she was the first thing that came to mind.)

Ooooo! Well . . . it DOES sound very sad, so I may not watch it for a time yet - still need to recover from The War Games & all, but I'll try to see it for her! :D
(& thanks to series four, any time I hear the words 'There's something on your back', I get kind of creeped out. WHAT? :P)

Now I must find a way for Fourteen to get her hands on a tuning fork - either that, or an excuse for Jamie to crack a joke about it again. :P

YES, YES, YOU MUST. MORE TUNING FORKS! ::will be on hand to deal with the once-again traumatized Jamie::

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

Well, you could pretend that the miniskirts and hotpants were practical to run away from beasties. *grins* And you can't deny that the catsuit and the leather outfit are practical.

::giggles:: Of COURSE her miniskirts & hot pants were practical! :P Practical, sexy, futuristic & fashionable! ALL WINNING THINGS.

Yes, he made it sexier... and dirtier, since dirt and muck were falling over it all the time. :P

But you can't really deny that such a thing would only add to the sexiness factor . . . after all, you don't get much more dashing than an insanely brave Highlander with a bit of dirt all over his jacket . . . wild, untamed & sexy, all at once! ^_^

Yes, indeed. :(

::wibblewibble::

No, definitely not pregnant. The only times I've seen comments about her being pregnant during that story were jokes, so I knew it wasn't true.

Ah, I see now - & yes, I DO see! :D Well, now I know the real story, yes?

It's not at all noticeable with all the bubblewrap all over her - particularly because the costume people also gave her a belt that makes it impossible to notice if she's really pregnant or not. If she was, I think it must have been of only three or four months, since it would have been difficult to conceal it so well even with the bubblewrap if her pregnancy was more advanced than that, and if it was earlier then it wouldn't have been necessary to hide it at all.

Crumbs! So we have no way of knowing the truth or not. Ah, well. That's life. ::bows slightly & waves a hand::

*grins*

& it's only til now I realised how saucy that could be taken . . . oops? ::tries to look sorry & fails, naturally::

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

I just finished watching DMP last night and your name for it is so, so appropriate. *flails* I'll be posting my reactions... sometime in the next couple days!

O! I AM SO JEALOUS THAT YOU'VE SEEN THAT SERIAL!! Sara Kingdom! & Katarina! (::sniffs::)

& I hope you enjoy The War Games when you get to it - it's very sad, but it's a GREAT serial.

::glompglomp::

[nentari.livejournal.com]

Wow . . . this fandom just TURNS IN ON ITSELF SO OFTEN, I SWEAR. :D
I'm now wondering if this Jenny is also the Doctor's daughter, and if this means Zoe is too - which, if I think about it, would explain a lot. ;)
Maybe this Jenny is the mother of the Doctor's other grandchildren. :P

But there's always someone willing to help such a brave fellow like Jamie, isn't there? ♥
I know of nine other people who would be more than happy to be of assistance - and strangely enough, they all own strange blue boxes...

I would ask for more, but the way you've spoke of it, I think it's best if I remain ignorant.
I think the scans of this story are still available in Jamie's comm - but it's indeed better if you don't know. I'll just say that in the comics' AU Jamie managed to neutralize the memory block - but, considering what happens later, perhaps it would have been better if the Time Lords had been successful. *weeps*

[nentari.livejournal.com]

True - though I think even Time Lords themselves prefer to make that generalization, alas.
Yes, the other chapters seem to look at Prydonians the same way other Hogwarts houses look at Slytherins.

I REALLY HATE THIS ENDING, OKAY. ;____;
Not to worry - Terrance Dicks for the rescue! He'll always willing to correct continuity errors in his stories (the mistake in Jamie and Zoe's appearance in The Five Doctors was caused by Eric Saward's rewrite and not by Terry's original script), as well as make some sad stories have happier outcomes. In the disc 2 commentaries I've listened to yesterday, he said he once wrote a book in which Carstairs and Lady Jennifer had managed to meet again, and were married; he didn't mention the book where this happens, but I'm happy just with the knowledge of it. :D

Or, the worst thing I could think of was that the CIA would force the Doctor to tell them where Susan was - so they could say that he'd betrayed her when they finally found her.
Okay, that would be too monstrous to consider - but then again, this being the CIA, I wouldn't put it past them.

[nentari.livejournal.com]

THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOUBLE THE SCOTTISH ACCENTS FOR JAMIE'S LAST SERIAL! ::poutyface::
Well, there was Bernard Horsfall...

::approves of this quite happily::
I love my meta. :P

I was just listening to the commentary of The War Machines
You got the DVD? :D

Good point - even if they COULD find a way to control any of them, one of them would be bound to figure out a way of circumventing the aliens' control over them.
With this in mind, I think the Aliens should rephrase their statement - humans are not the most vicious race they know, but the most vicious of those they can control. And even so, they still fall into some snags, as proven by the existence of the resistance.

[nentari.livejournal.com]

Ooooo! Well . . . it DOES sound very sad, so I may not watch it for a time yet - still need to recover from The War Games & all, but I'll try to see it for her! :D
I also like to see it for the Buddhist monks, K'anpo and Cho-je - especially the latter, since he had more screentime. After The Abominable Snowmen, it's refreshing to see Tibetan monks who actually practice what they preach, even if the resident bad guys twist my favourite mantra. And it's a great story overall, in spite of the heartbreaking ending and a car chase I feel takes way much longer than it should.

(& thanks to series four, any time I hear the words 'There's something on your back', I get kind of creeped out. WHAT? :P)
Then this one will creep you out as well. If it had been Three and Sarah Jane visiting Pompeii instead of Ten and Donna, the same prediction could have been given to Sarah Jane because of this story. *shudders*

YES, YES, YOU MUST. MORE TUNING FORKS!
TUNING FORKS ARE LOVE. YOU HEAR ME, JAMIE?

[nentari.livejournal.com]

::giggles:: Of COURSE her miniskirts & hot pants were practical! :P Practical, sexy, futuristic & fashionable! ALL WINNING THINGS.
And that's why she wore them. :D

after all, you don't get much more dashing than an insanely brave Highlander with a bit of dirt all over his jacket . . . wild, untamed & sexy, all at once! ^_^
*big grin*

Crumbs! So we have no way of knowing the truth or not. Ah, well. That's life. ::bows slightly & waves a hand::
There's no information on either Wikipedia or IMDb of when her kids were born, so we can't make a calculation based on that, either.