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riverdressesWhoa! Okay, making my way through the first leg of the great & mighty Troughton rewatch-athon, which, amusingly, starts with five William Hartnell serials.
I hadn't planned on including The Dalek Invasion of Earth originally, as I'd wanted to see The Aztecs first, so I could get to know Susan a bit better before seeing her final serial, but I figured, what the hell? I was going to start with a bit of the Hartnell-era first anyway, so I tossed it in. (but I may get to see The Aztecs soon!)
So here we are with recaps of the first three serials!
The Dalek Invasion of Earth
- The first thing I got as soon as Ian, Barbara, Susan & One stepped out of the TARDIS was definitely a feeling of mutual respect & possibly friendship between One, Ian & Barbara - much stronger than it was at the end of The Edge of Destruction. I would say he's definitely changed, as they have, from their initial adventures with him & Susan.
- Susan's childlike side seems to come out a bit here, just as all the bits of the bride fall in front of the TARDIS. I think it's a nice contrast to who she becomes later throughout the story. & her interactions with One were very sweet.
- The interaction between Ian & One is great during their scenes in the warehouse. They've become fairly equal, I would say. One is no longer as condescending to Ian as he was originally, & actually listens to him as well. Far different from their first interactions.
- The scenes where Susan's being carried off & Barbara running after the man who found her in front of the TARDIS was very beautifully shot, I thought. It was almost cinematic, in a way & even bit comical, as Susan's being carried one way above Barbara, who's running just underneath where she is.
- I remember hearing a little about this serial before I'd ever chose to see it, & that it did seem to be influenced by the Second World War, as it was just two decades before the serial was conceived, & the scenes of Barbara running through such desolate, overgrown, fenced off places in London really do have that feel, as well as the cinematic feeling of the scenes beforehand. Those are some of my favourite parts of the whole serial.
- Hmm. I was a bit underwhelmed by the Dalek coming out of the water, for some reason. I'd seen that bit before & flipped out a bit, but seeing it in context just sort of underwhelmed me. Not sure why, but Ian & One's reactions are the best bit of that segment, I think.
- On the first viewing, I didn't like Jenny very much. Afterwards, I grew to like her more, especially in her scenes with Barbara later on.
- One still runs the domain of AWESOME, even on Dalek-infested Earth. ::grins:: Who else but him would figure out how to get out of a Dalek holding cell?
Though I am surprised he wasn't a bit more suspicious of why the Daleks would leave a key of sorts in there with prisoners - I would have thought he'd guess it a trap, but his other ideas about it proved to be valid, so I guess I have no real leg to stand on, regarding his not knowing it was a trap.
- I really loved Susan in this serial - I've seen four with her, but this, I feel, was her best out of all of them. She was so much less a screaming, worrying, whiny girl, & more of a fighting, brave, grown-up young woman in this. I felt that she really asserted herself as a Time Lady, & as more than just the Doctor's granddaughter & as a child.
& of course . . . her beginning relationship with David, but we'll get to that later on.
- Well, since I mentioned it, let's get there - I really liked David. He was one of my favourite characters of the story & I truly loved his relationship with Susan. I believed in it as it progressed & I loved the fish scene - it's playful, sweet & a light bit sexy, even. & their kiss! & then One came back & sort of spoiled it all. But how cute was David trying to seem totally innocent when One returned? ::giggles:: I really enjoyed watching their feelings for each other develop in all of their scenes together.
- I must admit, seeing One laid out under that machine that makes Robomen is something of a chilling, slightly disconcerting image to leave off on. Which means it was a good job! ::smiles::
- Robomen, incidentally . . . when I first heard of them, I thought they were Cybermen, but under a different name. I wonder if they were a prototype or maybe an indirect inspiration for the Cybermen. Hmm . . . just a theory.
- Barbara Wright driving a bus, with Daleks all around her, then SMASHING RIGHT THROUGH A WHOLE LINE OF THEM. THIS WOMAN IS MORE THAN A MATCH FOR A MOTORISED DUSTBIN, SO WATCH OUT! That, to me, is one of her finest moments as a companion & one of the best moments in all of Classic!Who - at least that I've seen!
- Another thing I loved about this serial was how Ian & Barbara got to use their skills in science & history to fuck about with the Daleks to quite an impressive degree. Barbara's confusing of the Daleks with her knowledge of history is my favourite of the two personally, but Ian has his moments of awesome by screwing about with the wires & the bomb. Ian? AWESOME. & Barbara too! They were an amazing pair & equally amazing, if initially reluctant, companions.
- LOLZ AT THE SLAVES & ROBOMEN FLIPPING OVER THE DALEKS & TOSSING THEM AROUND! ::dies:: BEST SHIT EVER.
- I've been having a super fun, super long conversation with![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
nentari recently & among the things we've talked about is One's era, & how Susan changed from her early serials so much by her final story. Some of the things I've said there, I've said there & vice versa, mostly about Susan & about her final scene with her grandfather - okay, I'm going to get a bit long-winded now, so get comfy!
- Susan's final scene with her grandfather, where he tells her he's double-locked the doors & she won't be able to get in, & what follows, is, quite possibly, one of the saddest moments I've seen during my Classic!Who viewing. One's final words to her are very poignant, beautiful & very saddening, all at once. All through this serial, I knew that when he was with her, he could see that she was growing up & that it was time to set her free to have her own life, with David, on his Earth & to help rebuild it.nentari mentioned the possibility of One having made the choice with the help & advice of Ian & Barbara, which I fully agree with. I feel that by then, the three of them had enough respect & a solid enough friendship, if that's the right word, to ask for their advice & for their opinions.
Even before that was brought up, I got the sense the first time I saw it that the two of them knew he was going to leave Susan with David. They knew & they agreed with his choice to do so, even though they would all miss her. But I think they all knew it was her time. She'd grown into a brave young woman, a far different girl than they'd first met at Coal Hill School & I think they also knew (& trusted) that David would love & take care of her, & that she would be fine on her own, without them or her grandfather.
I also brought up the notion that perhaps, part of One's choosing to leave Susan with David was because I think he knew, or had some idea of what might, or what would happen to him if the Time Lords eventually caught up to him. His punishment, when they finally did, was incredibly severe & I wondered if he left her there to keep her safe from what they would possibly do to her - she'd chosen to go with him, she'd chosen to break the law of never interfering, as her grandfather did. If his punishment - forced regeneration, partial destruction of his TARDIS, indefinite exile & memory wiping of both himself & of his two companions - was so harsh, what would Susan's have been then? She was a Time Lady, or near enough to one, I think, for the Time Lords to make an example of her & the Doctor.
My exact wording was this: '& now that I think about it (mostly because I remember someone saying this is perhaps why Four left Sarah Jane on Earth when he was recalled back to Gallifrey & I thought it might apply here), perhaps that was also a factor (albeit it could have been a small one) in why One wanted Susan to stay behind with David - the Time Lords forced the Doctor into his third regeneration after taking Jamie & Zoe from him; what would they have done with Susan, who I would surmise, made the choice on her own, to go with her grandfather? I feel like her punishment might have been similar, if not worse, for choosing to go as well. Or perhaps instead of a forced regeneration, her own memories of her grandfather might have been wiped from her mind & she just would have been sent back to life on Gallifrey without ever knowing the things she'd done with him.'
We agreed that could definitely have been part of One's reasoning, as well as for Susan's own happiness.
- & a small sidebar: Since the first FOUR times I've seen The Dalek Invasion of Earth (yes, four. I had a lot of extras to watch!), I've since watched The Stolen Earth & all but the last twenty minutes of Journey's End, I actually see a fair few parallels between all three stories, aside from the obvious. Ten, in The Stolen Earth, says 'Someone once tried to move the Earth before', referencing this serial, the Daleks order all Earth people out into the streets to be used as test subjects, & there are companions sneaking onboard the main ship of the Daleks. I think there may be a few other things, but those are the ones I remember the best now.
O. & the leaving of a companion. Twice in Journey's End, but only one is a halfway happy ending. Susan's is a bittersweet, but hopeful, promising ending. Rose's was more a closure. & Donna's shouldn't have happened at all. It was like the endings of both The War Games & The Dalek Invasion of Earth mashed up into New!Who stew . . . not always a good thing.
- One's last words to Susan break my heart. I cried the first time I watched this serial & I still get a little teary-eyed when I talk about it. So I'll transcribe it here. Mostly for myself, but hey, maybe you might want to remember it yourself sometime.
'Listen, Susan, please. I've double-locked the doors; you can't get in. Now move back, child, where I can see you. During all the years, I've been taking care of you, you in return have been taking care of me. You're still my grandchild, and always will be. But now, you're a woman too. I want you to belong somewhere. To have roots of your own. With David, you'll be able to find those roots. Live normally like any woman should do. Believe me my dear, your future lies with David, and not with a silly old buffer like me. One day, I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs, and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine. Goodbye Susan. Goodbye, my dear.'
& the final shot of her TARDIS key on the ground . . . it's heartbreaking. Hopeful, because Susan will be amazing & go on to do splendid things, but at a price. But she grew up so much by then, & it was time for her to make a life of her own.
(& yes, just waiting to hear it is bringing tears to my eyes. I don't care, it's a beautiful ending.)
The Time Meddler
- I loved the opening of this serial, even though it had a fair tint of sadness to it, as it's the one right after Barbara & Ian leave the TARDIS. But I loved how kind & warm One was with Vicki, even though they were both saddened by the loss of their two friends.
- He mentioned Susan. ♥ I still think, no matter how far he regenerates, he'll never stop missing her. I almost want her to show up in a new regeneration of her own in the new series, with Eleven.
- I love Vicki already & I've just got one serial with her. I think she's sweet, gutsy, brave & very adorable. & I really loved her interaction with One - I got a real sense of mutual care & respect between them, something I didn't get with One, Barbara & Ian until The Dalek Invasion of Earth. Also, he seems to have vastly softened in his overall demeanour from when I saw him with Susan. Not that I don't think he wasn't kind to her, or that he didn't care for her, but here, I just feel like his capacity for caring has increased quite a bit.
& I loved how he offered to return her home & said that he didn't want her to stay because of him. I thought that was a lovely reveal for how far One came from An Unearthly Child & his early stories, or, at least, the ones I've seen.
- LOLZ AT STEVEN'S ENTRANCE. I haven't met Steven until now, but I think he's funny. & I feel like he's the opposite of Vicki - more impetuous & reckless, while I find her more calm & level-headed & the one more inclined to think things through.
(also WTFPANDA? OMG, PANDA? IRIS WILDTHYME'S PANDA, IS THAT YOU?)
- I remembernentari mentioning this in a great discussion we've been having - that it might have been Barbara's influence that made One more kinder & less bitchy toward other humans. (well, it was SOMETHING like that, just not in those words!) I completely agree, & I did even during The Dalek Invasion of Earth - I think her kindness & personality (& her bond with Susan) helped to make One more open toward others, instead of putting up a cool, high-minded front that I perceived from him when I met him first.
- Steven's scepticism is a bit refreshing - not as sharp as Ian's was, & not as offhand as Harry's was. Steven's just like 'HELL NO, THIS IS NOT A TIME MACHINE' & Vicki & One are all, 'WE GOIN' PROVE YOU WRONG, PAL.' ::giggles:: I like it.
- Man, just one serial without them & I miss Barbara & Ian. I loved them; they're definitely favourite companions of mine, especially Barbara!But now they can get married!
- LOLZ ONE THREW TEA AT THE MEDDLING MONK! FTW, BITCHES, ONE FTFW.
- I like how proactive a companion Vicki is - definitely different from Susan, but I don't mean that to reflect badly on Susan, mind you. Steven's a lot more blunt & sharp, I think, but I like him still!
- I didn't know that Douglas Camfield directed this story - he also directed one of my favourite Troughton-era serials, namely The Invasion. I may have to seriously get this on DVD. (almost did a few times, but I was worried I'd hate it & feel like I'd wasted my money.)
- Ooo, it it just my imagination, or did One just break the rules & tell a Saxon their eventual future? If he did . . . screw the rules, that was a very kind thing for him to do!
- Vicki continues to be take-charge & awesome all through this story. I APPROVE.
- 'I have a Winchester '73 right in the middle of your spinal cord.'
ONE, YOU ARE SERIOUSLY BADASS, EVEN WITH A STICK. ILU, SIR!
- I liked the role reversal between Vicki & Steven when they can't find the TARDIS - Vicki gets upset, while Steven becomes the calmer one, but Vicki isn't completely stripped of her sparkiness, I think. She's upset, worried, but she also doesn't want to believe that the TARDIS is gone. I still love her. ♥
- One is sharper than a shard of glass in this, I must say! He's always sharp, of course, but his shrewdness is even more apparent in this, I think. I'm really enjoying watching him put all the pieces together in this.
- The Meddling Monk keeps reminding me of Patrick Troughton in this . . . he even looks a bit like him, I think. It's weird.
- O. My. Word! I knew the Meddling Monk was a renegade like the Master & the Rani, but still, seeing that he has a TARDIS! Even if I was getting to that idea, it was still a shock to see! I LOVE THIS SERIAL, WHY DID I THINK I WOULDN'T.
- One calls him a 'time meddler' - but he's still a Time Lord, yes? Just more on the Master-Rani side of the spectrum than on the Doctor-Iris Wildthyme side.
- Also noted that the Meddling Monk refers to a chameleon circuit as a camouflage circuit' - is that the first time that something like that is mentioned in the series? It seems like it is, but I don't know for sure, of course.
- Ooo, the Doctor is pretty touchy about his Type-40 - the Meddling Monk's got a Mark Four & he's not impressed or willing to admit his is a bit outdated. Hee!
- There's just one moment, where One asks Steven to get a pencil & paper out of the Monk's TARDIS & when he smiles . . . I can see Two in him, right at that very second. Almost like seeing his future, in a way. ♥♥ One's AWESOME.
- & in conclusion? One > the Monk, One is more badass than he looks (TRUST me on this, those of you that have yet to meet him!) & Vicki & Steven are some kickass companions & very deserving of travelling with the Doctor. & this serial was fucking awesome & I have so many thankyous tonentari for giving it to me as an extra - you were right, love - the interaction between One, Vicki & Steven was great! (I HAVE to get this on DVD now.)
The War Machines
(watched as I recapped - so it might be a bit incoherent or a bit scattered!)
- First thing - interesting title sequence - I wonder if that was in the original broadcast, or if it was done for the DVD release. V. ominous & futuristic.
- Hmm, Dodo never met the Daleks? Wow. Just a bit surprised on that. Also, just in the few minutes that I'm watching, I like Dodo's interactions with One. & I don't mind One introducing her as his secretary - too much. Good enough to stave off questions, but it seems a bit stereotypical at the same time. (I would have gone for 'associate' or 'scientific assistant' myself.)
- POLLY!!! HER DRESS!! O, miss Polly, you're beautiful before I even know your name. ♥ & HEE! She makes silly faces & she's a great typist!
- Polly? IS AWESOMESAUCE. Mod dresses, knowing all the best clubs of 60s London, friends named Kitty & BEN. & the Duchess stands up for herself too! & just in the short time she's had so far, she seems rather nicely fleshed out, not cardboard or like a stock character that just gets lucky to meet the Doctor & Dodo. She's shown as having a life outside of work, as having a sense of humour & that she's just overall friendly. I like her a lot as a character & knowing she's a future companion is even better.
(&nentari, I do see what you said about Polly's motherly tendencies - she's got them in spades, I'd say. & I like that as another dimension of her character.)
- OMG, BEN IS CLEARLY SO SMITTEN BY POLLY RIGHT OFF THAT HE'LL RISK A FIGHT FOR HER HONOUR. ♥♥ & also, I quite like Ben already; he's sweet when he mopes a bit & he's a gentleman! (& I do have a bit of a fondness for sailors . . . . like Harry Sullivan, William Bush, Horatio Hornblower . . . . ::whistles terribly & giggles::) & he's DANCING with her! O, Ben. If you think you aren't crushing on Polly already, you're just kidding yourself.
- I haven't mentioned the WOTAN yet, but as the antagonist of the serial, I think this could get interesting. & o dear, mind control over Dodo?! WOTAN'S days are numbered, right here & now.
(& I did note that this was from an idea from Kit Pedler, who created my all-time favourite villains - the Cybermen. So I have a fair amount of faith in this story already)
- This is a note mostly for myself, but I definitely will have to rewatch this serial more often for the fashion, clothes & makeup - it's all v. sixties & quite mod. Maybe we'll soon see Polly on the list of my fashion inspirations!
- Teehee, Polly doesn't like her new moniker just yet. & OMG FAB GEAR! (which I've seeeeecretly incorporated into my vocabulary, but I've been waiting til I hear it to use it) Yes, One does have some fab gear, doesn't he? But so do Zoe, Polly & Jo! & Three, Four & Eight, definitely, if we're talking Doctors!
- Mind control by computers . . . o goodness. & the fact that they've got Dodo doesn't make me too comfy. ::bites thumbnail::
- I'm definitely seeing the Kit Pedler influence here - WOTAN'S mind control over humans puts me in mind of the way Cybermen were able to invade via taking out humans by way of technology in The Invasion.
- WHOA, THEY CALLED HIM DOCTOR WHO OFFICIALLY & CANATONICALLY.
- Polly's v. pragmatic in addition to being a fun sort of girl. Level head & great personality . . . no, not going to stop gushing about her or Ben anytime soon!
- POLLY MAKES THEIR FIRST DATE!! This girl is a v. forward thinking one, isn't she? & yay, Ben accepted! (as though he wouldn't!)
- One continues being totally bloody badass in this serial & he hasn't even taken on the WOTAN yet. But One just carries his badassery like his spectacles - everywhere!
(it's kind of funny - when I first saw One in An Unearthly Child, I wasn't too sure if I would like him at all. But after these three serials, I really think I do like him. He's snarky, sharp & eventually kinder in future serials. Perhaps One is just one of those Doctors that you can't right off form an opinion about from a few serials, or his first ones, because he undergoes so many changes before his regeneration. I never hated him, or severely disliked him, however, I was just sort of on the fence as to whether I liked him or if he was a Doctor I could watch, but not have a lot of feeling or a lot to say about, like I do Four or Three.)
- Lovin' on the Duchess's hat & dress when she takes over as secretary for Sir Charles! & her casual offence at Dodo's abruptness.
- William Hartnell ROCKS the telephone scene, seriously. Damn well owns that scene, really.
- So, Dodo's off to the country . . . I have a feeling that was her complete departure as a companion now. If it is? Yeah, that's a messy way of doing it, I think. Messy & too loose an end.
- The voice of WOTAN sounds really familiar . . . maybe it's just me, but I'd swear, I'd heard that voice somewhere else before.
- Hello Ben! ::waves:: GREAT coat, the the way. So far, Ben hasn't let me down, or even caused me to lose interest in what he does onscreen - I hate taking my eyes away to type this properly! & I suppose it comes with being a sailor & all, but I think it's very brave of him to help the Doctor out - he could have just said no, but he didn't. He wants to help. Even if it has nothing to do with Polly, he still wanted to help.But you know he's worried about Polly.
- Another thing? Ben is fast on his feet, even when faced with something he doesn't understand, save for that he's going to get killed! BEN♥
- O FUCKING NO WAY, YOU BITCHES DID NOT HYPNOTISE POLLY, YOU FUCKING DIDN'T. & may I just say that the scene with Ben being captured & Polly under total hypnosis was really kind of frightening? Especially seeing them get into a physical fight & her being equal in her ferocity with him.
& DUDE. I just met Ben & already seeing him in such a panicked state frightens me, it really rather does. & I'm scared for Polly - BITCHES ARE GETTING SHANKED FOR HYPNOTISING HER, JUST YOU WATCH.
& how does she stay so beautiful even after getting into a tussle with Ben?! I AM SO JEALOUS!
- Mechanised evolution . . . yes, that's Kit Pedler right there. It's almost a verbal precursor to the Cybermen & what they are - the next stage in human evolution, human 2.0. - & this serial is actually a bit chilling, I have to say.
- Evil!Polly? It's scaring me. Like, 'run & hide' scaring me. Polly, please, come back to your senses!
- I blush to admit I'm eyeing Ben in just that jumper of his - I can't fancy him; I fancy too many companions already!
- I want Polly's dress. It's beautiful! Like her, even after a fight & lifting heavy machine parts. HOW DOES SHE DO IT?!
- WHOA! GO BEN FOR ESCAPING! ::cheers:: & gah, he's in such a state . . . I want to cuddle him & clean his face up a bit now. ::hugs him::
- Polly's breaking through her mind control! Come on, Duchess, you can do it! Fight, fight!
- One really believes in Ben & is very confident in his assessment of his character. & I definitely agree with him. Ben has a lot of strength of character & he's tough. If One is so solidly believing of him, then so am I. (of course, not that I didn't feel that way about him before, but now I really do. He's gelling with me as a character & as a future companion, he really is.)
- the war machines' firearms are a bit reminiscent of Dalek weaponry . . . I wonder if that was done on purpose or budgetary.
- Ha, I love how everyone runs, but One just stands there like, 'Bring it on, bitches. I'm ready.' ONE, WHY SO AWESOME, SERIOUSLY?
- One, if you get any more badass, my television will explode. BUT STILL, KEEP IT UP!
- Regarding One decoding & figuring out the war machine's programming & how many others they are & when they were supposed to attack?
ONE. ILU. WHY DOES NO ONE RESPECT YOU LIKE THEY SHOULD THESE DAYS?
- I'm falling in love with this serial, totally. & the hallmarks of Kit Pedler are everywhere, but they still remain considerably distinct from The Invasion. (I do know that The Tenth Planet was the official first début for the Cybermen & I do have it, but I haven't seen it yet, so I can't say anything for it)
- ♥♥♥ Ben & all his bravery.
- Now Ben's on something of a damn suicide mission to save Polly. DUDE, BEN/POLLY CANNOT BE DENIED & ANYONE WHO DOES SO IS A BIT BLIND.
- Hmm. The ending felt a bit anticlimatic to me. Ben getting Polly the fuck out of there before the war machine blew up WOTAN was great, but . . . I don't know, it just felt like it was missing something. It was good, but could have been better.
- ::sigh:: Yes, Dodo's departure was rather ham-fisted, I think. She could have at least made one last appearance to say goodbye herself.
- Polly's latest outfit is sharp! & yay for Ben in uniform! (♥♥) & oooo, looks like Ben & Polly are off with One now - without an invitation! This could get interesting, eh? ::grins::
Next three serials will be the recon of The Smugglers, The Tenth Planet (One ----> Two & then the great & mighty Troughton rewatch-athon really begins!) & The Power of the Daleks.
I hadn't planned on including The Dalek Invasion of Earth originally, as I'd wanted to see The Aztecs first, so I could get to know Susan a bit better before seeing her final serial, but I figured, what the hell? I was going to start with a bit of the Hartnell-era first anyway, so I tossed it in. (but I may get to see The Aztecs soon!)
So here we are with recaps of the first three serials!
The Dalek Invasion of Earth
- The first thing I got as soon as Ian, Barbara, Susan & One stepped out of the TARDIS was definitely a feeling of mutual respect & possibly friendship between One, Ian & Barbara - much stronger than it was at the end of The Edge of Destruction. I would say he's definitely changed, as they have, from their initial adventures with him & Susan.
- Susan's childlike side seems to come out a bit here, just as all the bits of the bride fall in front of the TARDIS. I think it's a nice contrast to who she becomes later throughout the story. & her interactions with One were very sweet.
- The interaction between Ian & One is great during their scenes in the warehouse. They've become fairly equal, I would say. One is no longer as condescending to Ian as he was originally, & actually listens to him as well. Far different from their first interactions.
- The scenes where Susan's being carried off & Barbara running after the man who found her in front of the TARDIS was very beautifully shot, I thought. It was almost cinematic, in a way & even bit comical, as Susan's being carried one way above Barbara, who's running just underneath where she is.
- I remember hearing a little about this serial before I'd ever chose to see it, & that it did seem to be influenced by the Second World War, as it was just two decades before the serial was conceived, & the scenes of Barbara running through such desolate, overgrown, fenced off places in London really do have that feel, as well as the cinematic feeling of the scenes beforehand. Those are some of my favourite parts of the whole serial.
- Hmm. I was a bit underwhelmed by the Dalek coming out of the water, for some reason. I'd seen that bit before & flipped out a bit, but seeing it in context just sort of underwhelmed me. Not sure why, but Ian & One's reactions are the best bit of that segment, I think.
- On the first viewing, I didn't like Jenny very much. Afterwards, I grew to like her more, especially in her scenes with Barbara later on.
- One still runs the domain of AWESOME, even on Dalek-infested Earth. ::grins:: Who else but him would figure out how to get out of a Dalek holding cell?
Though I am surprised he wasn't a bit more suspicious of why the Daleks would leave a key of sorts in there with prisoners - I would have thought he'd guess it a trap, but his other ideas about it proved to be valid, so I guess I have no real leg to stand on, regarding his not knowing it was a trap.
- I really loved Susan in this serial - I've seen four with her, but this, I feel, was her best out of all of them. She was so much less a screaming, worrying, whiny girl, & more of a fighting, brave, grown-up young woman in this. I felt that she really asserted herself as a Time Lady, & as more than just the Doctor's granddaughter & as a child.
& of course . . . her beginning relationship with David, but we'll get to that later on.
- Well, since I mentioned it, let's get there - I really liked David. He was one of my favourite characters of the story & I truly loved his relationship with Susan. I believed in it as it progressed & I loved the fish scene - it's playful, sweet & a light bit sexy, even. & their kiss! & then One came back & sort of spoiled it all. But how cute was David trying to seem totally innocent when One returned? ::giggles:: I really enjoyed watching their feelings for each other develop in all of their scenes together.
- I must admit, seeing One laid out under that machine that makes Robomen is something of a chilling, slightly disconcerting image to leave off on. Which means it was a good job! ::smiles::
- Robomen, incidentally . . . when I first heard of them, I thought they were Cybermen, but under a different name. I wonder if they were a prototype or maybe an indirect inspiration for the Cybermen. Hmm . . . just a theory.
- Barbara Wright driving a bus, with Daleks all around her, then SMASHING RIGHT THROUGH A WHOLE LINE OF THEM. THIS WOMAN IS MORE THAN A MATCH FOR A MOTORISED DUSTBIN, SO WATCH OUT! That, to me, is one of her finest moments as a companion & one of the best moments in all of Classic!Who - at least that I've seen!
- Another thing I loved about this serial was how Ian & Barbara got to use their skills in science & history to fuck about with the Daleks to quite an impressive degree. Barbara's confusing of the Daleks with her knowledge of history is my favourite of the two personally, but Ian has his moments of awesome by screwing about with the wires & the bomb. Ian? AWESOME. & Barbara too! They were an amazing pair & equally amazing, if initially reluctant, companions.
- LOLZ AT THE SLAVES & ROBOMEN FLIPPING OVER THE DALEKS & TOSSING THEM AROUND! ::dies:: BEST SHIT EVER.
- I've been having a super fun, super long conversation with
nentari recently & among the things we've talked about is One's era, & how Susan changed from her early serials so much by her final story. Some of the things I've said there, I've said there & vice versa, mostly about Susan & about her final scene with her grandfather - okay, I'm going to get a bit long-winded now, so get comfy!- Susan's final scene with her grandfather, where he tells her he's double-locked the doors & she won't be able to get in, & what follows, is, quite possibly, one of the saddest moments I've seen during my Classic!Who viewing. One's final words to her are very poignant, beautiful & very saddening, all at once. All through this serial, I knew that when he was with her, he could see that she was growing up & that it was time to set her free to have her own life, with David, on his Earth & to help rebuild it.
nentari mentioned the possibility of One having made the choice with the help & advice of Ian & Barbara, which I fully agree with. I feel that by then, the three of them had enough respect & a solid enough friendship, if that's the right word, to ask for their advice & for their opinions. Even before that was brought up, I got the sense the first time I saw it that the two of them knew he was going to leave Susan with David. They knew & they agreed with his choice to do so, even though they would all miss her. But I think they all knew it was her time. She'd grown into a brave young woman, a far different girl than they'd first met at Coal Hill School & I think they also knew (& trusted) that David would love & take care of her, & that she would be fine on her own, without them or her grandfather.
I also brought up the notion that perhaps, part of One's choosing to leave Susan with David was because I think he knew, or had some idea of what might, or what would happen to him if the Time Lords eventually caught up to him. His punishment, when they finally did, was incredibly severe & I wondered if he left her there to keep her safe from what they would possibly do to her - she'd chosen to go with him, she'd chosen to break the law of never interfering, as her grandfather did. If his punishment - forced regeneration, partial destruction of his TARDIS, indefinite exile & memory wiping of both himself & of his two companions - was so harsh, what would Susan's have been then? She was a Time Lady, or near enough to one, I think, for the Time Lords to make an example of her & the Doctor.
My exact wording was this: '& now that I think about it (mostly because I remember someone saying this is perhaps why Four left Sarah Jane on Earth when he was recalled back to Gallifrey & I thought it might apply here), perhaps that was also a factor (albeit it could have been a small one) in why One wanted Susan to stay behind with David - the Time Lords forced the Doctor into his third regeneration after taking Jamie & Zoe from him; what would they have done with Susan, who I would surmise, made the choice on her own, to go with her grandfather? I feel like her punishment might have been similar, if not worse, for choosing to go as well. Or perhaps instead of a forced regeneration, her own memories of her grandfather might have been wiped from her mind & she just would have been sent back to life on Gallifrey without ever knowing the things she'd done with him.'
We agreed that could definitely have been part of One's reasoning, as well as for Susan's own happiness.
- & a small sidebar: Since the first FOUR times I've seen The Dalek Invasion of Earth (yes, four. I had a lot of extras to watch!), I've since watched The Stolen Earth & all but the last twenty minutes of Journey's End, I actually see a fair few parallels between all three stories, aside from the obvious. Ten, in The Stolen Earth, says 'Someone once tried to move the Earth before', referencing this serial, the Daleks order all Earth people out into the streets to be used as test subjects, & there are companions sneaking onboard the main ship of the Daleks. I think there may be a few other things, but those are the ones I remember the best now.
O. & the leaving of a companion. Twice in Journey's End, but only one is a halfway happy ending. Susan's is a bittersweet, but hopeful, promising ending. Rose's was more a closure. & Donna's shouldn't have happened at all. It was like the endings of both The War Games & The Dalek Invasion of Earth mashed up into New!Who stew . . . not always a good thing.
- One's last words to Susan break my heart. I cried the first time I watched this serial & I still get a little teary-eyed when I talk about it. So I'll transcribe it here. Mostly for myself, but hey, maybe you might want to remember it yourself sometime.
'Listen, Susan, please. I've double-locked the doors; you can't get in. Now move back, child, where I can see you. During all the years, I've been taking care of you, you in return have been taking care of me. You're still my grandchild, and always will be. But now, you're a woman too. I want you to belong somewhere. To have roots of your own. With David, you'll be able to find those roots. Live normally like any woman should do. Believe me my dear, your future lies with David, and not with a silly old buffer like me. One day, I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs, and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine. Goodbye Susan. Goodbye, my dear.'
& the final shot of her TARDIS key on the ground . . . it's heartbreaking. Hopeful, because Susan will be amazing & go on to do splendid things, but at a price. But she grew up so much by then, & it was time for her to make a life of her own.
(& yes, just waiting to hear it is bringing tears to my eyes. I don't care, it's a beautiful ending.)
The Time Meddler
- I loved the opening of this serial, even though it had a fair tint of sadness to it, as it's the one right after Barbara & Ian leave the TARDIS. But I loved how kind & warm One was with Vicki, even though they were both saddened by the loss of their two friends.
- He mentioned Susan. ♥ I still think, no matter how far he regenerates, he'll never stop missing her. I almost want her to show up in a new regeneration of her own in the new series, with Eleven.
- I love Vicki already & I've just got one serial with her. I think she's sweet, gutsy, brave & very adorable. & I really loved her interaction with One - I got a real sense of mutual care & respect between them, something I didn't get with One, Barbara & Ian until The Dalek Invasion of Earth. Also, he seems to have vastly softened in his overall demeanour from when I saw him with Susan. Not that I don't think he wasn't kind to her, or that he didn't care for her, but here, I just feel like his capacity for caring has increased quite a bit.
& I loved how he offered to return her home & said that he didn't want her to stay because of him. I thought that was a lovely reveal for how far One came from An Unearthly Child & his early stories, or, at least, the ones I've seen.
- LOLZ AT STEVEN'S ENTRANCE. I haven't met Steven until now, but I think he's funny. & I feel like he's the opposite of Vicki - more impetuous & reckless, while I find her more calm & level-headed & the one more inclined to think things through.
(also WTFPANDA? OMG, PANDA? IRIS WILDTHYME'S PANDA, IS THAT YOU?)
- I remember
nentari mentioning this in a great discussion we've been having - that it might have been Barbara's influence that made One more kinder & less bitchy toward other humans. (well, it was SOMETHING like that, just not in those words!) I completely agree, & I did even during The Dalek Invasion of Earth - I think her kindness & personality (& her bond with Susan) helped to make One more open toward others, instead of putting up a cool, high-minded front that I perceived from him when I met him first.- Steven's scepticism is a bit refreshing - not as sharp as Ian's was, & not as offhand as Harry's was. Steven's just like 'HELL NO, THIS IS NOT A TIME MACHINE' & Vicki & One are all, 'WE GOIN' PROVE YOU WRONG, PAL.' ::giggles:: I like it.
- Man, just one serial without them & I miss Barbara & Ian. I loved them; they're definitely favourite companions of mine, especially Barbara!
- LOLZ ONE THREW TEA AT THE MEDDLING MONK! FTW, BITCHES, ONE FTFW.
- I like how proactive a companion Vicki is - definitely different from Susan, but I don't mean that to reflect badly on Susan, mind you. Steven's a lot more blunt & sharp, I think, but I like him still!
- I didn't know that Douglas Camfield directed this story - he also directed one of my favourite Troughton-era serials, namely The Invasion. I may have to seriously get this on DVD. (almost did a few times, but I was worried I'd hate it & feel like I'd wasted my money.)
- Ooo, it it just my imagination, or did One just break the rules & tell a Saxon their eventual future? If he did . . . screw the rules, that was a very kind thing for him to do!
- Vicki continues to be take-charge & awesome all through this story. I APPROVE.
- 'I have a Winchester '73 right in the middle of your spinal cord.'
ONE, YOU ARE SERIOUSLY BADASS, EVEN WITH A STICK. ILU, SIR!
- I liked the role reversal between Vicki & Steven when they can't find the TARDIS - Vicki gets upset, while Steven becomes the calmer one, but Vicki isn't completely stripped of her sparkiness, I think. She's upset, worried, but she also doesn't want to believe that the TARDIS is gone. I still love her. ♥
- One is sharper than a shard of glass in this, I must say! He's always sharp, of course, but his shrewdness is even more apparent in this, I think. I'm really enjoying watching him put all the pieces together in this.
- The Meddling Monk keeps reminding me of Patrick Troughton in this . . . he even looks a bit like him, I think. It's weird.
- O. My. Word! I knew the Meddling Monk was a renegade like the Master & the Rani, but still, seeing that he has a TARDIS! Even if I was getting to that idea, it was still a shock to see! I LOVE THIS SERIAL, WHY DID I THINK I WOULDN'T.
- One calls him a 'time meddler' - but he's still a Time Lord, yes? Just more on the Master-Rani side of the spectrum than on the Doctor-Iris Wildthyme side.
- Also noted that the Meddling Monk refers to a chameleon circuit as a camouflage circuit' - is that the first time that something like that is mentioned in the series? It seems like it is, but I don't know for sure, of course.
- Ooo, the Doctor is pretty touchy about his Type-40 - the Meddling Monk's got a Mark Four & he's not impressed or willing to admit his is a bit outdated. Hee!
- There's just one moment, where One asks Steven to get a pencil & paper out of the Monk's TARDIS & when he smiles . . . I can see Two in him, right at that very second. Almost like seeing his future, in a way. ♥♥ One's AWESOME.
- & in conclusion? One > the Monk, One is more badass than he looks (TRUST me on this, those of you that have yet to meet him!) & Vicki & Steven are some kickass companions & very deserving of travelling with the Doctor. & this serial was fucking awesome & I have so many thankyous to
nentari for giving it to me as an extra - you were right, love - the interaction between One, Vicki & Steven was great! (I HAVE to get this on DVD now.)The War Machines
(watched as I recapped - so it might be a bit incoherent or a bit scattered!)
- First thing - interesting title sequence - I wonder if that was in the original broadcast, or if it was done for the DVD release. V. ominous & futuristic.
- Hmm, Dodo never met the Daleks? Wow. Just a bit surprised on that. Also, just in the few minutes that I'm watching, I like Dodo's interactions with One. & I don't mind One introducing her as his secretary - too much. Good enough to stave off questions, but it seems a bit stereotypical at the same time. (I would have gone for 'associate' or 'scientific assistant' myself.)
- POLLY!!! HER DRESS!! O, miss Polly, you're beautiful before I even know your name. ♥ & HEE! She makes silly faces & she's a great typist!
- Polly? IS AWESOMESAUCE. Mod dresses, knowing all the best clubs of 60s London, friends named Kitty & BEN. & the Duchess stands up for herself too! & just in the short time she's had so far, she seems rather nicely fleshed out, not cardboard or like a stock character that just gets lucky to meet the Doctor & Dodo. She's shown as having a life outside of work, as having a sense of humour & that she's just overall friendly. I like her a lot as a character & knowing she's a future companion is even better.
(&
nentari, I do see what you said about Polly's motherly tendencies - she's got them in spades, I'd say. & I like that as another dimension of her character.)- OMG, BEN IS CLEARLY SO SMITTEN BY POLLY RIGHT OFF THAT HE'LL RISK A FIGHT FOR HER HONOUR. ♥♥ & also, I quite like Ben already; he's sweet when he mopes a bit & he's a gentleman! (& I do have a bit of a fondness for sailors . . . . like Harry Sullivan, William Bush, Horatio Hornblower . . . . ::whistles terribly & giggles::) & he's DANCING with her! O, Ben. If you think you aren't crushing on Polly already, you're just kidding yourself.
- I haven't mentioned the WOTAN yet, but as the antagonist of the serial, I think this could get interesting. & o dear, mind control over Dodo?! WOTAN'S days are numbered, right here & now.
(& I did note that this was from an idea from Kit Pedler, who created my all-time favourite villains - the Cybermen. So I have a fair amount of faith in this story already)
- This is a note mostly for myself, but I definitely will have to rewatch this serial more often for the fashion, clothes & makeup - it's all v. sixties & quite mod. Maybe we'll soon see Polly on the list of my fashion inspirations!
- Teehee, Polly doesn't like her new moniker just yet. & OMG FAB GEAR! (which I've seeeeecretly incorporated into my vocabulary, but I've been waiting til I hear it to use it) Yes, One does have some fab gear, doesn't he? But so do Zoe, Polly & Jo! & Three, Four & Eight, definitely, if we're talking Doctors!
- Mind control by computers . . . o goodness. & the fact that they've got Dodo doesn't make me too comfy. ::bites thumbnail::
- I'm definitely seeing the Kit Pedler influence here - WOTAN'S mind control over humans puts me in mind of the way Cybermen were able to invade via taking out humans by way of technology in The Invasion.
- WHOA, THEY CALLED HIM DOCTOR WHO OFFICIALLY & CANATONICALLY.
- Polly's v. pragmatic in addition to being a fun sort of girl. Level head & great personality . . . no, not going to stop gushing about her or Ben anytime soon!
- POLLY MAKES THEIR FIRST DATE!! This girl is a v. forward thinking one, isn't she? & yay, Ben accepted! (as though he wouldn't!)
- One continues being totally bloody badass in this serial & he hasn't even taken on the WOTAN yet. But One just carries his badassery like his spectacles - everywhere!
(it's kind of funny - when I first saw One in An Unearthly Child, I wasn't too sure if I would like him at all. But after these three serials, I really think I do like him. He's snarky, sharp & eventually kinder in future serials. Perhaps One is just one of those Doctors that you can't right off form an opinion about from a few serials, or his first ones, because he undergoes so many changes before his regeneration. I never hated him, or severely disliked him, however, I was just sort of on the fence as to whether I liked him or if he was a Doctor I could watch, but not have a lot of feeling or a lot to say about, like I do Four or Three.)
- Lovin' on the Duchess's hat & dress when she takes over as secretary for Sir Charles! & her casual offence at Dodo's abruptness.
- William Hartnell ROCKS the telephone scene, seriously. Damn well owns that scene, really.
- So, Dodo's off to the country . . . I have a feeling that was her complete departure as a companion now. If it is? Yeah, that's a messy way of doing it, I think. Messy & too loose an end.
- The voice of WOTAN sounds really familiar . . . maybe it's just me, but I'd swear, I'd heard that voice somewhere else before.
- Hello Ben! ::waves:: GREAT coat, the the way. So far, Ben hasn't let me down, or even caused me to lose interest in what he does onscreen - I hate taking my eyes away to type this properly! & I suppose it comes with being a sailor & all, but I think it's very brave of him to help the Doctor out - he could have just said no, but he didn't. He wants to help. Even if it has nothing to do with Polly, he still wanted to help.
- Another thing? Ben is fast on his feet, even when faced with something he doesn't understand, save for that he's going to get killed! BEN♥
- O FUCKING NO WAY, YOU BITCHES DID NOT HYPNOTISE POLLY, YOU FUCKING DIDN'T. & may I just say that the scene with Ben being captured & Polly under total hypnosis was really kind of frightening? Especially seeing them get into a physical fight & her being equal in her ferocity with him.
& DUDE. I just met Ben & already seeing him in such a panicked state frightens me, it really rather does. & I'm scared for Polly - BITCHES ARE GETTING SHANKED FOR HYPNOTISING HER, JUST YOU WATCH.
- Mechanised evolution . . . yes, that's Kit Pedler right there. It's almost a verbal precursor to the Cybermen & what they are - the next stage in human evolution, human 2.0. - & this serial is actually a bit chilling, I have to say.
- Evil!Polly? It's scaring me. Like, 'run & hide' scaring me. Polly, please, come back to your senses!
- I blush to admit I'm eyeing Ben in just that jumper of his - I can't fancy him; I fancy too many companions already!
- I want Polly's dress. It's beautiful! Like her, even after a fight & lifting heavy machine parts. HOW DOES SHE DO IT?!
- WHOA! GO BEN FOR ESCAPING! ::cheers:: & gah, he's in such a state . . . I want to cuddle him & clean his face up a bit now. ::hugs him::
- Polly's breaking through her mind control! Come on, Duchess, you can do it! Fight, fight!
- One really believes in Ben & is very confident in his assessment of his character. & I definitely agree with him. Ben has a lot of strength of character & he's tough. If One is so solidly believing of him, then so am I. (of course, not that I didn't feel that way about him before, but now I really do. He's gelling with me as a character & as a future companion, he really is.)
- the war machines' firearms are a bit reminiscent of Dalek weaponry . . . I wonder if that was done on purpose or budgetary.
- Ha, I love how everyone runs, but One just stands there like, 'Bring it on, bitches. I'm ready.' ONE, WHY SO AWESOME, SERIOUSLY?
- One, if you get any more badass, my television will explode. BUT STILL, KEEP IT UP!
- Regarding One decoding & figuring out the war machine's programming & how many others they are & when they were supposed to attack?
ONE. ILU. WHY DOES NO ONE RESPECT YOU LIKE THEY SHOULD THESE DAYS?
- I'm falling in love with this serial, totally. & the hallmarks of Kit Pedler are everywhere, but they still remain considerably distinct from The Invasion. (I do know that The Tenth Planet was the official first début for the Cybermen & I do have it, but I haven't seen it yet, so I can't say anything for it)
- ♥♥♥ Ben & all his bravery.
- Now Ben's on something of a damn suicide mission to save Polly. DUDE, BEN/POLLY CANNOT BE DENIED & ANYONE WHO DOES SO IS A BIT BLIND.
- Hmm. The ending felt a bit anticlimatic to me. Ben getting Polly the fuck out of there before the war machine blew up WOTAN was great, but . . . I don't know, it just felt like it was missing something. It was good, but could have been better.
- ::sigh:: Yes, Dodo's departure was rather ham-fisted, I think. She could have at least made one last appearance to say goodbye herself.
- Polly's latest outfit is sharp! & yay for Ben in uniform! (♥♥) & oooo, looks like Ben & Polly are off with One now - without an invitation! This could get interesting, eh? ::grins::
Next three serials will be the recon of The Smugglers, The Tenth Planet (One ----> Two & then the great & mighty Troughton rewatch-athon really begins!) & The Power of the Daleks.
tagging
- characters: barbara wright,
- characters: ben jackson,
- characters: ian chesterton,
- lovers: ben/polly,
- lovers: ian/barbara,
- lovers: susan/david,
- obsessions: doctor who,
- one's some snarky win right there bitch!,
- polly wright the cybermen slayer,
- susan goes forth in her beliefs,
- the great&mighty troughton rewatch-athon
no subject
Date: 2009-05-18 09:37 am (UTC)Oooooo. I'm tempted to race my way through The Smugglers to see the very first Cybermen, but I'll pace myself, I swear. & if they're creeping you out after all this time, then they'll most likely be giving me a few chills too - the Classic!Cybermen always do.
Yes, indeed. Because the Cybermen in The Tenth Planet come from Mondas while the ones in Tomb of the Cybermen come from Telos, I've devised a small theory of mine to explain the discrepancy: Cybermen originally came from Mondas, but eventually separated into two factions, with one of them migrating to Telos. The two factions evolved differently, which explains the different looks, and the ay they dehumanized themselves in Mondas explains why they have a certain weakness that doesn't affect the Cybermen featured from The Moonbase onwards (all of them, in my eyes, are Telosian, with only those from their first serial hailing from Mondas).
Hooray for me knowing my different models of Cybermen! :D ::has earned her badge in Cybermen studies:: Anyway, on a more useful point, though I can't say anything for the Mondasian Cybermen until I see them, nevertheless, I like your theory. I think it fits the Cybermen mindset quite well. & I think I could adopt your idea of all Cybermen from The Moonbase on as being Telosian as well - I'm actually trying NOT to come up with any theories or ideas of my own until I've seen The Tenth Planet, but since the master vault is located on Telos & as far as I know, no reference is made to Mondas again, it would seem like perhaps the Telosian faction became a bit stronger than the Mondasian faction & either destroyed the latter, or forced them into becoming more Telosian. Unless of course, I'm wrong & that there ARE references to Mondas later on & I just opened my big mouth too soon. :)
(& after that, would it be a safe assumption that the titular tenth planet is Mondas itself, then? Feel free to hit me with the clue bat for this obviously answerable question.)
They're still more inhuman than they are in Revenge of the Cybermen; I have to confess I was a bit disappointed with the way they turned out on that serial - not just because they had completely human voices, but because they had very emotional and human-like attitudes; I kept expecting the Cyberleader (played by Christopher Robbie, who played the Karkus in The Mind Robber) to put his hands on his hips and slap his tigh at times. *shakes head*
O, that's rather disappointing to hear, actually. :( I was looking forward to something like The Moonbase sort of Cybermen facing off against Four, Sarah & Harry. But I'm ALSO watching it because it's part of Harry's little travelling arc, & because as far as I know, Four never really interacted with the Cybermen after that, so I'll try not to let that deter me from really enjoying it.
& YES, the Cybus Cybermen are too bloody noisy, honestly! The Cybus ones, with all the noise they make, would be a fairly easy take-down for the Doctor if he heard them coming & had time
for Polly to whip out the nail varnish removerto get out of their way or just blow them to scraps. The Daleks have always been pretty quiet - you don't really know it's them until they start talking, or until you see them, even in the new series & that gives them a fair advantage of sneaking up on someone. The Cybermen, in my opinion, also need to be pretty stealthy, considering that they're basically metallic - if they have no stealth, then they may as well just walk down the street & kill people, not be sequestered in laboratories or vaults.(I kind of thought their 'delete' catchphrase was a bit of a giggle myself! It's so . . . I don't know, so . . . internet, I suppose, that I get a bit of a chuckle out of it. But really, I think it's just Daleks that can get away with a good catchphrase & not annoy the ears off you with it. & um, theirs scare me more anyway. EXTERMINATE! > YOU WILL BE DELETED, y/n?)
no subject
Date: 2009-05-18 09:40 am (UTC)ANYWAY!
It takes place halfway through season 3, so she's still with Ten. There's some UNIT in it, though. Poor Martha is taken hostage by the Cybermen because they want Ten to do something for them, but she has a few shiny moments - and it allows her to think of her cousin Adeola, which I feel was a nice touch.
Sadly, I don't have it in .pdf; it came for free with a magazine I bought over a year ago.
AWW! I'd have LOVED to read that - Martha & the Cybermen would be a pretty interesting thing, I think! (but I'm just more partial to them than Daleks anyway; plus, I didn't like how they were handled in Daleks in Manhattan that much - a bit out of character for me.) Even IF she was still with Ten, I'd have loved to read it. But Martha being with UNIT & the Cybermen (Telosian, thankyouverymuch!) invading Earth would have great potential as a fic, I think. I love Martha being with UNIT, even though I HATE, HATE, HATE what they did to it in series four, & I'd like to see how her branch would handle a NON-DALEK, no assistance from the Doctor (but maybe some former companions?) invasion of Earth. Kind of a Pertwee era-esque storyline, I think, but without the Doctor. (or, WITH any Doctor, BUT NOT TEN.)
Dodo is also one of the most loathed companions, which baffles me. But then again, I'm also baffled with all the hate that's geared towards Mel and Adric. *shrugs* I can accept people hating on Mike Yates or Adam, even if I personally don't (I feel like slapping Mike for what he does to Benton in Day of the Daleks, though), but then again there's tangible reasons for people to dislike them.
. . . Wait, WHAT did Dodo do to get so much animosity from folks? She seemed like a nice girl to me; I just hated her exit. & Mel's one of the one's I HAVEN'T met yet (& I've met almost all thirty plus companions) but I assume it's a case of 'OMG WHAT A SCREAMER' or some such - I've heard Mel DOES scream on occasion, but from what I've seen in little clips & read about, she seems nice!
Adric on the other hand . . . well, I'm honestly & truly on the fence with him - he bugs me for some reason, but it could be because I've merely found so much dislike directed towards him that I've unconsciously taken that stance on him myself, which is why I asked for Black Orchid & Earthshock - I want to do my own thinking & form my own opinion of him & not just go with everyone else's because I don't know him that well. There are plenty of reasons to hate some companions - I hated Martha for a while because of her feelings about Ten & how she seemed to constantly yak about them - I felt like the writers just defined her through those feelings, but in time, I got past that & I really like her now. Tegan could be grating, that I could see, even though I like her take-charge attitude in Castrovalva. Jo, whom I love, I can see why she would annoy people. But as you said, those are tangible reasons, not just random hate. It's like all the Gwen-hate in the Torchwood fandom to a certain extent - half may have some actual basis, the rest is just cooked-up nonsense.
(Adric? I thought he was kind of sweet in The Keeper of Traken, honestly. I also kind of shipped him with Nyssa!)
In a way, Fourteen looks like a combination of Susan and Dodo (she has a strong, uncanny resemblance to Susan, but her eyes are brown and her nose is shaped like Dodo's), and they were both lovely in that sort of hats, so I'm sure she'll look great.
Susan could indeed wear a hat well! :D (& if you wondered where my random idea for Jamie/Susan came along . . . well . . . ::whistles casually::)
no subject
Date: 2009-05-18 10:50 am (UTC)*snerk*
But Martha being with UNIT & the Cybermen (Telosian, thankyouverymuch!) invading Earth would have great potential as a fic, I think.
it definitely would. Sadly, the Cybermen in the book were of the Cybus variety...
. . . Wait, WHAT did Dodo do to get so much animosity from folks? She seemed like a nice girl to me; I just hated her exit.
I don't understand the hate either. Some people dislike her because they feel she was badly written, and others hate her because "she's fugly" (WTF? Really, WTF?????).
I've heard Mel DOES scream on occasion, but from what I've seen in little clips & read about, she seems nice!
She is nice - and cuddly and adorable, and I wish I could have seen more of her with Six than beyond Trial of a Time Lord as she was clearly designed to go well with that particular Doctor. Her screams are shriller than usual, I have to admit, but I really can't see why she should have such a bad rep about it.
which is why I asked for Black Orchid & Earthshock - I want to do my own thinking & form my own opinion of him & not just go with everyone else's because I don't know him that well.
There's a scene at the beginning of Earthshock that the Adric haters like to point out as an example why they dislike him - though personally I see both him and Five being obnoxious in it. I'm surprised Tegan and Nyssa didn't roll their eyes on their direction.
Adric? I thought he was kind of sweet in The Keeper of Traken, honestly.
I think people would have appreciated him more if he had had more adventures with Four - I feel he worked better with Four than Five, as that sweetness in his personality was more evident. With Five meing so much more youthful, the father & son type of relationship they had just was not possible after the regeneration (and I feel it's the problem behind that scene at the opening of Earthshock - with Four, that argument would never had happened).
(& if you wondered where my random idea for Jamie/Susan came along . . . well . . . ::whistles casually::)
I think the Doctor would frown at that, though. :P
no subject
Date: 2009-05-21 08:00 pm (UTC)::points to icon:: THE DOCTOR DOES NOT APPROVE, NOR UNDERSTAND SUCH SUPERFICIAL COMMENTS ON HIS COMPANIONS. Badly-written is ONE thing, hating the gal 'cause she's not pretty like Romana, Sarah or Rose? BULLSHIT. ARGUMENT & OPINION RENDERED ENTIRELY INVALID THE MINUTE THAT GETS PULLED OUT.
She is nice - and cuddly and adorable, and I wish I could have seen more of her with Six than beyond Trial of a Time Lord as she was clearly designed to go well with that particular Doctor. Her screams are shriller than usual, I have to admit, but I really can't see why she should have such a bad rep about it.
Awww, she sounds like a cutie! & didn't she get Six on a carrot juice diet at one point? COME ON! That's not a bad thing, that's sweet & shows she cares about her Doctor's health! I've wanted to see Trial of a Time Lord for a while, due to my Doctor/Master obsession, but I haven't had a chance to - & yes, I'm a little leery of Six & I don't want Dead!Peri - too sad! But maybe I'll try it out one day?
There's a scene at the beginning of Earthshock that the Adric haters like to point out as an example why they dislike him - though personally I see both him and Five being obnoxious in it.
Another thing to hold onto when I get there. (& honestly, the Doctor himself can be a brat at times, yet he's not called out on it nearly as much as his companions are, I've noted. Or maybe that's just me?)
I think people would have appreciated him more if he had had more adventures with Four - I feel he worked better with Four than Five, as that sweetness in his personality was more evident.
I could see that, even in the two stories I saw him in with Four - it was very father-son-like & I found it very sweet. Maybe I DO need to be more open-minded about Adric - if I think he's sweet enough in two stories & I can ship him with Nyssa, then I must like him a little, even if I don't think I do.
I think the Doctor would frown at that, though. :P
::giggles madly:: Yes, he just might. :P
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Date: 2009-05-21 09:25 pm (UTC)And when the haters use the "badly-written" argument, they should be hating on the writers, not on the poor characters. Besides, the problem with the writing didn't affect Dodo in herself. Sure, she had a lousy introduction and an equally lousy departure (when pointing out the trouble with the writing, a Dodo fan wrote on a tribute that she had a non-beginning and a non-end) but she got to shine in her middle stories.
& didn't she get Six on a carrot juice diet at one point?
She did. In fact, the last words Colin Baker said as Six were "Carrot juice, carrot juice, carrot juice." All thanks to Mel. :P
& yes, I'm a little leery of Six & I don't want Dead!Peri - too sad! But maybe I'll try it out one day?
You should probably check out some other stories of Six before Trial, I think, just to see if you really like Six. His BFAs are a good place to start, actually, as Colin gets to be the amazing Doctor he wanted but which JNT did not allow him to be onscreen. Plus, the hair and the coat are not visible in those. ;)
As for dead!Peri, I have to say that it's a very powerful scene, and it could have been as intense as the final scenes of Katarina and Adric if JNT hadn't decided to cop out at the very end of Trial. Well, if I must be honest, I'm a bit torn between the originally planned departure, for allowing Peri to go with a bang, and the cop-out, because I'm a sap.
(Incidentally, the cop-out is mentioned in the first of my fics, when Fourteen tells Jamie what happened to Peri; just a warning. a Peri fan I know told me she was delighted with the twist I gave and that she now not only accepts the cop-out but has inserted my version of it in her personal canon. *is smug*)
& honestly, the Doctor himself can be a brat at times, yet he's not called out on it nearly as much as his companions are, I've noted. Or maybe that's just me?
No, it's definitely not you. Seriously, unless it's Six (who tends to get the weight of the fandom whenever he does anything remotely obnoxious), it looks as if the Doctors can get away with murder.
Maybe I DO need to be more open-minded about Adric - if I think he's sweet enough in two stories & I can ship him with Nyssa, then I must like him a little, even if I don't think I do.
Wait until you see him and Nyssa in a scene from Black Orchid. She calls him a pig, and it makes me giggle like a fool; those two were really funny together - the two young geniuses (makes me wonder how Zoe would react to having another genius her age around).
::giggles madly:: Yes, he just might. :P
Oh yeah - look at my new icon. Jamie should watch out if he ever even dares to look at Susan funny. :P
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Date: 2009-05-18 10:33 am (UTC)Please do. :) The Smugglers is sadly unappreciated and dismissed as just "the story between The War Machines and The Tenth Planet, but I really liked it - even if I find it hard to believe people would so easily mistake Polly for a boy.
it would seem like perhaps the Telosian faction became a bit stronger than the Mondasian faction & either destroyed the latter, or forced them into becoming more Telosian. Unless of course, I'm wrong & that there ARE references to Mondas later on & I just opened my big mouth too soon. :)
There are no references to Mondas after The Tenth Planet, as far as I know, but I can say with utmost certainty that the Mondasians were neither destroyed nor assimilated by the Telosians. You'll have to watch that story to see what I mean. However, I can say that the Telosians are indeed stronger, as the Mondasians have a personal weakness that easily explains why the Telosians are still around while the Mondasians have not returned.
Edit: While looking for some information on Mondas, I've discovered a synopsis of the Sixth Doctor serial Attack of the Cybermen, in which Six tells this to Peri and a friend: "[after The Tenth Planet] the surviving Cybermen evacuated to Telos, wiped out the indigenous Cryons and transformed their refridgerated cities into cryogenic tombs in which to hibernate and recover their strength." So I guess this means the Telosians descend from the Mondasians rather than them being two different factions. Ah well, I don't mind - as long as Mondas is the original home planet, I'm happy. :)
(& after that, would it be a safe assumption that the titular tenth planet is Mondas itself, then? Feel free to hit me with the clue bat for this obviously answerable question.)
Indeed, Mondas is the tenth planet. Though, of course, now that Pluto has been demoted, "ninth planet" would have been the definition used if this story had been filmed today. :P
But I'm ALSO watching it because it's part of Harry's little travelling arc, & because as far as I know, Four never really interacted with the Cybermen after that, so I'll try not to let that deter me from really enjoying it.
I'm sure you'll still enjoy it. Kevin Stoney (Tobias Vaughn/Mavic Chen) is there in yet another role - though this time he's not the villain and he's so heavily made-up it took me until the closing credits to realize where I knew that voice from. :P And the Cybermat are actually creepy in this one - they look like oversized silverfish.
The Cybermen, in my opinion, also need to be pretty stealthy, considering that they're basically metallic - if they have no stealth, then they may as well just walk down the street & kill people, not be sequestered in laboratories or vaults.
Exactly. If we think about it, the reason why they were such an effective menace in The Moonbase was because nobody could hear them walking about. It made it hard for the crew to believe they were involved util they actually saw them.
But really, I think it's just Daleks that can get away with a good catchphrase & not annoy the ears off you with it.
I think Daleks are the problem here for me - "delete" sounds too much like "exterminate" in my brain, as if RTD was trying to draw parallels between the two species. I prefer the Telosian catchphrase, especially with that voice they had during the Troughton era: "You belong to us. You shall be like us."
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Date: 2009-05-21 08:18 pm (UTC)(& yes, I don't quite believe Polly could be so easily mistaken for a boy either - I'm chalking it up to her clothes & hopefully, that men weren't as . . . keen on eyeing a lady's figure in the seventeenth century!)
Edit: While looking for some information on Mondas, I've discovered a synopsis of the Sixth Doctor serial Attack of the Cybermen, in which Six tells this to Peri and a friend: "[after The Tenth Planet] the surviving Cybermen evacuated to Telos, wiped out the indigenous Cryons and transformed their refridgerated cities into cryogenic tombs in which to hibernate and recover their strength." So I guess this means the Telosians descend from the Mondasians rather than them being two different factions. Ah well, I don't mind - as long as Mondas is the original home planet, I'm happy. :)
O, thankyou for having found that! :D & it seems to make sense & fit with already-established canon, so I can accept it readily.
Indeed, Mondas is the tenth planet. Though, of course, now that Pluto has been demoted, "ninth planet" would have been the definition used if this story had been filmed today. :P
HEE! Yes. You know, I DO wonder what the Doctor would say about Pluto's demotion from planet to moon. :P
I'm sure you'll still enjoy it. Kevin Stoney (Tobias Vaughn/Mavic Chen) is there in yet another role - though this time he's not the villain and he's so heavily made-up it took me until the closing credits to realize where I knew that voice from. :P And the Cybermat are actually creepy in this one - they look like oversized silverfish.
AWESOME! :D & I'm really looking forward to seeing Four fighting with Cybermen - one of my favourite Doctors & my favourite villains - bring it on! :D
If we think about it, the reason why they were such an effective menace in The Moonbase was because nobody could hear them walking about. It made it hard for the crew to believe they were involved util they actually saw them.
YES. & the fact that the Cybermen were SO stealthy & clever enough to disguise themselves in the one place they knew no one would logically look for them . . . chilling & awesome at once.
I think Daleks are the problem here for me - "delete" sounds too much like "exterminate" in my brain, as if RTD was trying to draw parallels between the two species. I prefer the Telosian catchphrase, especially with that voice they had during the Troughton era: "You belong to us. You shall be like us."
Considering their meetup in Army of Ghosts & Doomsday, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he DID intend to do just that. But I don't think you CAN draw parallels between either species - Daleks will kill ANYTHING in order to become the dominant species, whereas Cybermen want to assimilate other races into their own in order to become the more dominant species.
& ARGH, that IS a scary catchphrase, at least to me - RTD should have stuck with the original, not, for a lack of better term, upgraded it.
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Date: 2009-05-21 09:41 pm (UTC)Indeed. That's what I'm doing right now. :)
& yes, I don't quite believe Polly could be so easily mistaken for a boy either - I'm chalking it up to her clothes & hopefully, that men weren't as . . . keen on eyeing a lady's figure in the seventeenth century!
Exactly. Vicki is much more convincing as "Victor" in The Cruzades, but she's shorter and therefore more believable as a young boy, and her voice is an octave lower than Polly's - and yet her disguise is eventually blown.
HEE! Yes. You know, I DO wonder what the Doctor would say about Pluto's demotion from planet to moon. :P
"Poppycock! What levels of silliness can the human mind achieve when they try to dabble with science."
But I don't think you CAN draw parallels between either species
You can if you're RTD. :P