(if you want to change my life it's alright please change my life)

[riverdresses]

Whoa! Okay, making my way through the first leg of the great & mighty Troughton rewatch-athon, which, amusingly, starts with five William Hartnell serials.

I hadn't planned on including The Dalek Invasion of Earth originally, as I'd wanted to see The Aztecs first, so I could get to know Susan a bit better before seeing her final serial, but I figured, what the hell? I was going to start with a bit of the Hartnell-era first anyway, so I tossed it in. (but I may get to see The Aztecs soon!)

So here we are with recaps of the first three serials!

The Dalek Invasion of Earth

- The first thing I got as soon as Ian, Barbara, Susan & One stepped out of the TARDIS was definitely a feeling of mutual respect & possibly friendship between One, Ian & Barbara - much stronger than it was at the end of The Edge of Destruction. I would say he's definitely changed, as they have, from their initial adventures with him & Susan.

- Susan's childlike side seems to come out a bit here, just as all the bits of the bride fall in front of the TARDIS. I think it's a nice contrast to who she becomes later throughout the story. & her interactions with One were very sweet.

- The interaction between Ian & One is great during their scenes in the warehouse. They've become fairly equal, I would say. One is no longer as condescending to Ian as he was originally, & actually listens to him as well. Far different from their first interactions.

- The scenes where Susan's being carried off & Barbara running after the man who found her in front of the TARDIS was very beautifully shot, I thought. It was almost cinematic, in a way & even bit comical, as Susan's being carried one way above Barbara, who's running just underneath where she is.

- I remember hearing a little about this serial before I'd ever chose to see it, & that it did seem to be influenced by the Second World War, as it was just two decades before the serial was conceived, & the scenes of Barbara running through such desolate, overgrown, fenced off places in London really do have that feel, as well as the cinematic feeling of the scenes beforehand. Those are some of my favourite parts of the whole serial.

- Hmm. I was a bit underwhelmed by the Dalek coming out of the water, for some reason. I'd seen that bit before & flipped out a bit, but seeing it in context just sort of underwhelmed me. Not sure why, but Ian & One's reactions are the best bit of that segment, I think.

- On the first viewing, I didn't like Jenny very much. Afterwards, I grew to like her more, especially in her scenes with Barbara later on.

- One still runs the domain of AWESOME, even on Dalek-infested Earth. ::grins:: Who else but him would figure out how to get out of a Dalek holding cell?

Though I am surprised he wasn't a bit more suspicious of why the Daleks would leave a key of sorts in there with prisoners - I would have thought he'd guess it a trap, but his other ideas about it proved to be valid, so I guess I have no real leg to stand on, regarding his not knowing it was a trap.

- I really loved Susan in this serial - I've seen four with her, but this, I feel, was her best out of all of them. She was so much less a screaming, worrying, whiny girl, & more of a fighting, brave, grown-up young woman in this. I felt that she really asserted herself as a Time Lady, & as more than just the Doctor's granddaughter & as a child.

& of course . . . her beginning relationship with David, but we'll get to that later on.

- Well, since I mentioned it, let's get there - I really liked David. He was one of my favourite characters of the story & I truly loved his relationship with Susan. I believed in it as it progressed & I loved the fish scene - it's playful, sweet & a light bit sexy, even. & their kiss! & then One came back & sort of spoiled it all. But how cute was David trying to seem totally innocent when One returned? ::giggles:: I really enjoyed watching their feelings for each other develop in all of their scenes together.

- I must admit, seeing One laid out under that machine that makes Robomen is something of a chilling, slightly disconcerting image to leave off on. Which means it was a good job! ::smiles::

- Robomen, incidentally . . . when I first heard of them, I thought they were Cybermen, but under a different name. I wonder if they were a prototype or maybe an indirect inspiration for the Cybermen. Hmm . . . just a theory.

- Barbara Wright driving a bus, with Daleks all around her, then SMASHING RIGHT THROUGH A WHOLE LINE OF THEM. THIS WOMAN IS MORE THAN A MATCH FOR A MOTORISED DUSTBIN, SO WATCH OUT! That, to me, is one of her finest moments as a companion & one of the best moments in all of Classic!Who - at least that I've seen!

- Another thing I loved about this serial was how Ian & Barbara got to use their skills in science & history to fuck about with the Daleks to quite an impressive degree. Barbara's confusing of the Daleks with her knowledge of history is my favourite of the two personally, but Ian has his moments of awesome by screwing about with the wires & the bomb. Ian? AWESOME. & Barbara too! They were an amazing pair & equally amazing, if initially reluctant, companions.

- LOLZ AT THE SLAVES & ROBOMEN FLIPPING OVER THE DALEKS & TOSSING THEM AROUND! ::dies:: BEST SHIT EVER.

- I've been having a super fun, super long conversation with nentari recently & among the things we've talked about is One's era, & how Susan changed from her early serials so much by her final story. Some of the things I've said there, I've said there & vice versa, mostly about Susan & about her final scene with her grandfather - okay, I'm going to get a bit long-winded now, so get comfy!

- Susan's final scene with her grandfather, where he tells her he's double-locked the doors & she won't be able to get in, & what follows, is, quite possibly, one of the saddest moments I've seen during my Classic!Who viewing. One's final words to her are very poignant, beautiful & very saddening, all at once. All through this serial, I knew that when he was with her, he could see that she was growing up & that it was time to set her free to have her own life, with David, on his Earth & to help rebuild it. nentari mentioned the possibility of One having made the choice with the help & advice of Ian & Barbara, which I fully agree with. I feel that by then, the three of them had enough respect & a solid enough friendship, if that's the right word, to ask for their advice & for their opinions.

Even before that was brought up, I got the sense the first time I saw it that the two of them knew he was going to leave Susan with David. They knew & they agreed with his choice to do so, even though they would all miss her. But I think they all knew it was her time. She'd grown into a brave young woman, a far different girl than they'd first met at Coal Hill School & I think they also knew (& trusted) that David would love & take care of her, & that she would be fine on her own, without them or her grandfather.

I also brought up the notion that perhaps, part of One's choosing to leave Susan with David was because I think he knew, or had some idea of what might, or what would happen to him if the Time Lords eventually caught up to him. His punishment, when they finally did, was incredibly severe & I wondered if he left her there to keep her safe from what they would possibly do to her - she'd chosen to go with him, she'd chosen to break the law of never interfering, as her grandfather did. If his punishment - forced regeneration, partial destruction of his TARDIS, indefinite exile & memory wiping of both himself & of his two companions - was so harsh, what would Susan's have been then? She was a Time Lady, or near enough to one, I think, for the Time Lords to make an example of her & the Doctor.

My exact wording was this: '& now that I think about it (mostly because I remember someone saying this is perhaps why Four left Sarah Jane on Earth when he was recalled back to Gallifrey & I thought it might apply here), perhaps that was also a factor (albeit it could have been a small one) in why One wanted Susan to stay behind with David - the Time Lords forced the Doctor into his third regeneration after taking Jamie & Zoe from him; what would they have done with Susan, who I would surmise, made the choice on her own, to go with her grandfather? I feel like her punishment might have been similar, if not worse, for choosing to go as well. Or perhaps instead of a forced regeneration, her own memories of her grandfather might have been wiped from her mind & she just would have been sent back to life on Gallifrey without ever knowing the things she'd done with him.'

We agreed that could definitely have been part of One's reasoning, as well as for Susan's own happiness.

- & a small sidebar: Since the first FOUR times I've seen The Dalek Invasion of Earth (yes, four. I had a lot of extras to watch!), I've since watched The Stolen Earth & all but the last twenty minutes of Journey's End, I actually see a fair few parallels between all three stories, aside from the obvious. Ten, in The Stolen Earth, says 'Someone once tried to move the Earth before', referencing this serial, the Daleks order all Earth people out into the streets to be used as test subjects, & there are companions sneaking onboard the main ship of the Daleks. I think there may be a few other things, but those are the ones I remember the best now.

O. & the leaving of a companion. Twice in Journey's End, but only one is a halfway happy ending. Susan's is a bittersweet, but hopeful, promising ending. Rose's was more a closure. & Donna's shouldn't have happened at all. It was like the endings of both The War Games & The Dalek Invasion of Earth mashed up into New!Who stew . . . not always a good thing.

- One's last words to Susan break my heart. I cried the first time I watched this serial & I still get a little teary-eyed when I talk about it. So I'll transcribe it here. Mostly for myself, but hey, maybe you might want to remember it yourself sometime.

'Listen, Susan, please. I've double-locked the doors; you can't get in. Now move back, child, where I can see you. During all the years, I've been taking care of you, you in return have been taking care of me. You're still my grandchild, and always will be. But now, you're a woman too. I want you to belong somewhere. To have roots of your own. With David, you'll be able to find those roots. Live normally like any woman should do. Believe me my dear, your future lies with David, and not with a silly old buffer like me. One day, I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs, and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine. Goodbye Susan. Goodbye, my dear.'

& the final shot of her TARDIS key on the ground . . . it's heartbreaking. Hopeful, because Susan will be amazing & go on to do splendid things, but at a price. But she grew up so much by then, & it was time for her to make a life of her own.

(& yes, just waiting to hear it is bringing tears to my eyes. I don't care, it's a beautiful ending.)

The Time Meddler

- I loved the opening of this serial, even though it had a fair tint of sadness to it, as it's the one right after Barbara & Ian leave the TARDIS. But I loved how kind & warm One was with Vicki, even though they were both saddened by the loss of their two friends.

- He mentioned Susan. ♥ I still think, no matter how far he regenerates, he'll never stop missing her. I almost want her to show up in a new regeneration of her own in the new series, with Eleven.

- I love Vicki already & I've just got one serial with her. I think she's sweet, gutsy, brave & very adorable. & I really loved her interaction with One - I got a real sense of mutual care & respect between them, something I didn't get with One, Barbara & Ian until The Dalek Invasion of Earth. Also, he seems to have vastly softened in his overall demeanour from when I saw him with Susan. Not that I don't think he wasn't kind to her, or that he didn't care for her, but here, I just feel like his capacity for caring has increased quite a bit.

& I loved how he offered to return her home & said that he didn't want her to stay because of him. I thought that was a lovely reveal for how far One came from An Unearthly Child & his early stories, or, at least, the ones I've seen.

- LOLZ AT STEVEN'S ENTRANCE. I haven't met Steven until now, but I think he's funny. & I feel like he's the opposite of Vicki - more impetuous & reckless, while I find her more calm & level-headed & the one more inclined to think things through.

(also WTFPANDA? OMG, PANDA? IRIS WILDTHYME'S PANDA, IS THAT YOU?)

- I remember nentari mentioning this in a great discussion we've been having - that it might have been Barbara's influence that made One more kinder & less bitchy toward other humans. (well, it was SOMETHING like that, just not in those words!) I completely agree, & I did even during The Dalek Invasion of Earth - I think her kindness & personality (& her bond with Susan) helped to make One more open toward others, instead of putting up a cool, high-minded front that I perceived from him when I met him first.

- Steven's scepticism is a bit refreshing - not as sharp as Ian's was, & not as offhand as Harry's was. Steven's just like 'HELL NO, THIS IS NOT A TIME MACHINE' & Vicki & One are all, 'WE GOIN' PROVE YOU WRONG, PAL.' ::giggles:: I like it.

- Man, just one serial without them & I miss Barbara & Ian. I loved them; they're definitely favourite companions of mine, especially Barbara! But now they can get married!

- LOLZ ONE THREW TEA AT THE MEDDLING MONK! FTW, BITCHES, ONE FTFW.

- I like how proactive a companion Vicki is - definitely different from Susan, but I don't mean that to reflect badly on Susan, mind you. Steven's a lot more blunt & sharp, I think, but I like him still!

- I didn't know that Douglas Camfield directed this story - he also directed one of my favourite Troughton-era serials, namely The Invasion. I may have to seriously get this on DVD. (almost did a few times, but I was worried I'd hate it & feel like I'd wasted my money.)

- Ooo, it it just my imagination, or did One just break the rules & tell a Saxon their eventual future? If he did . . . screw the rules, that was a very kind thing for him to do!

- Vicki continues to be take-charge & awesome all through this story. I APPROVE.

- 'I have a Winchester '73 right in the middle of your spinal cord.'

ONE, YOU ARE SERIOUSLY BADASS, EVEN WITH A STICK. ILU, SIR!

- I liked the role reversal between Vicki & Steven when they can't find the TARDIS - Vicki gets upset, while Steven becomes the calmer one, but Vicki isn't completely stripped of her sparkiness, I think. She's upset, worried, but she also doesn't want to believe that the TARDIS is gone. I still love her. ♥

- One is sharper than a shard of glass in this, I must say! He's always sharp, of course, but his shrewdness is even more apparent in this, I think. I'm really enjoying watching him put all the pieces together in this.

- The Meddling Monk keeps reminding me of Patrick Troughton in this . . . he even looks a bit like him, I think. It's weird.

- O. My. Word! I knew the Meddling Monk was a renegade like the Master & the Rani, but still, seeing that he has a TARDIS! Even if I was getting to that idea, it was still a shock to see! I LOVE THIS SERIAL, WHY DID I THINK I WOULDN'T.

- One calls him a 'time meddler' - but he's still a Time Lord, yes? Just more on the Master-Rani side of the spectrum than on the Doctor-Iris Wildthyme side.

- Also noted that the Meddling Monk refers to a chameleon circuit as a camouflage circuit' - is that the first time that something like that is mentioned in the series? It seems like it is, but I don't know for sure, of course.

- Ooo, the Doctor is pretty touchy about his Type-40 - the Meddling Monk's got a Mark Four & he's not impressed or willing to admit his is a bit outdated. Hee!

- There's just one moment, where One asks Steven to get a pencil & paper out of the Monk's TARDIS & when he smiles . . . I can see Two in him, right at that very second. Almost like seeing his future, in a way. ♥♥ One's AWESOME.

- & in conclusion? One > the Monk, One is more badass than he looks (TRUST me on this, those of you that have yet to meet him!) & Vicki & Steven are some kickass companions & very deserving of travelling with the Doctor. & this serial was fucking awesome & I have so many thankyous to nentari for giving it to me as an extra - you were right, love - the interaction between One, Vicki & Steven was great! (I HAVE to get this on DVD now.)

The War Machines
(watched as I recapped - so it might be a bit incoherent or a bit scattered!)

- First thing - interesting title sequence - I wonder if that was in the original broadcast, or if it was done for the DVD release. V. ominous & futuristic.

- Hmm, Dodo never met the Daleks? Wow. Just a bit surprised on that. Also, just in the few minutes that I'm watching, I like Dodo's interactions with One. & I don't mind One introducing her as his secretary - too much. Good enough to stave off questions, but it seems a bit stereotypical at the same time. (I would have gone for 'associate' or 'scientific assistant' myself.)

- POLLY!!! HER DRESS!! O, miss Polly, you're beautiful before I even know your name. ♥ & HEE! She makes silly faces & she's a great typist!

- Polly? IS AWESOMESAUCE. Mod dresses, knowing all the best clubs of 60s London, friends named Kitty & BEN. & the Duchess stands up for herself too! & just in the short time she's had so far, she seems rather nicely fleshed out, not cardboard or like a stock character that just gets lucky to meet the Doctor & Dodo. She's shown as having a life outside of work, as having a sense of humour & that she's just overall friendly. I like her a lot as a character & knowing she's a future companion is even better.

(& nentari, I do see what you said about Polly's motherly tendencies - she's got them in spades, I'd say. & I like that as another dimension of her character.)

- OMG, BEN IS CLEARLY SO SMITTEN BY POLLY RIGHT OFF THAT HE'LL RISK A FIGHT FOR HER HONOUR. ♥♥ & also, I quite like Ben already; he's sweet when he mopes a bit & he's a gentleman! (& I do have a bit of a fondness for sailors . . . . like Harry Sullivan, William Bush, Horatio Hornblower . . . . ::whistles terribly & giggles::) & he's DANCING with her! O, Ben. If you think you aren't crushing on Polly already, you're just kidding yourself.

- I haven't mentioned the WOTAN yet, but as the antagonist of the serial, I think this could get interesting. & o dear, mind control over Dodo?! WOTAN'S days are numbered, right here & now.

(& I did note that this was from an idea from Kit Pedler, who created my all-time favourite villains - the Cybermen. So I have a fair amount of faith in this story already)

- This is a note mostly for myself, but I definitely will have to rewatch this serial more often for the fashion, clothes & makeup - it's all v. sixties & quite mod. Maybe we'll soon see Polly on the list of my fashion inspirations!

- Teehee, Polly doesn't like her new moniker just yet. & OMG FAB GEAR! (which I've seeeeecretly incorporated into my vocabulary, but I've been waiting til I hear it to use it) Yes, One does have some fab gear, doesn't he? But so do Zoe, Polly & Jo! & Three, Four & Eight, definitely, if we're talking Doctors!

- Mind control by computers . . . o goodness. & the fact that they've got Dodo doesn't make me too comfy. ::bites thumbnail::

- I'm definitely seeing the Kit Pedler influence here - WOTAN'S mind control over humans puts me in mind of the way Cybermen were able to invade via taking out humans by way of technology in The Invasion.

- WHOA, THEY CALLED HIM DOCTOR WHO OFFICIALLY & CANATONICALLY.

- Polly's v. pragmatic in addition to being a fun sort of girl. Level head & great personality . . . no, not going to stop gushing about her or Ben anytime soon!

- POLLY MAKES THEIR FIRST DATE!! This girl is a v. forward thinking one, isn't she? & yay, Ben accepted! (as though he wouldn't!)

- One continues being totally bloody badass in this serial & he hasn't even taken on the WOTAN yet. But One just carries his badassery like his spectacles - everywhere!

(it's kind of funny - when I first saw One in An Unearthly Child, I wasn't too sure if I would like him at all. But after these three serials, I really think I do like him. He's snarky, sharp & eventually kinder in future serials. Perhaps One is just one of those Doctors that you can't right off form an opinion about from a few serials, or his first ones, because he undergoes so many changes before his regeneration. I never hated him, or severely disliked him, however, I was just sort of on the fence as to whether I liked him or if he was a Doctor I could watch, but not have a lot of feeling or a lot to say about, like I do Four or Three.)

- Lovin' on the Duchess's hat & dress when she takes over as secretary for Sir Charles! & her casual offence at Dodo's abruptness.

- William Hartnell ROCKS the telephone scene, seriously. Damn well owns that scene, really.

- So, Dodo's off to the country . . . I have a feeling that was her complete departure as a companion now. If it is? Yeah, that's a messy way of doing it, I think. Messy & too loose an end.

- The voice of WOTAN sounds really familiar . . . maybe it's just me, but I'd swear, I'd heard that voice somewhere else before.

- Hello Ben! ::waves:: GREAT coat, the the way. So far, Ben hasn't let me down, or even caused me to lose interest in what he does onscreen - I hate taking my eyes away to type this properly! & I suppose it comes with being a sailor & all, but I think it's very brave of him to help the Doctor out - he could have just said no, but he didn't. He wants to help. Even if it has nothing to do with Polly, he still wanted to help. But you know he's worried about Polly.

- Another thing? Ben is fast on his feet, even when faced with something he doesn't understand, save for that he's going to get killed! BEN♥

- O FUCKING NO WAY, YOU BITCHES DID NOT HYPNOTISE POLLY, YOU FUCKING DIDN'T. & may I just say that the scene with Ben being captured & Polly under total hypnosis was really kind of frightening? Especially seeing them get into a physical fight & her being equal in her ferocity with him.

& DUDE. I just met Ben & already seeing him in such a panicked state frightens me, it really rather does. & I'm scared for Polly - BITCHES ARE GETTING SHANKED FOR HYPNOTISING HER, JUST YOU WATCH.

& how does she stay so beautiful even after getting into a tussle with Ben?! I AM SO JEALOUS!

- Mechanised evolution . . . yes, that's Kit Pedler right there. It's almost a verbal precursor to the Cybermen & what they are - the next stage in human evolution, human 2.0. - & this serial is actually a bit chilling, I have to say.

- Evil!Polly? It's scaring me. Like, 'run & hide' scaring me. Polly, please, come back to your senses!

- I blush to admit I'm eyeing Ben in just that jumper of his - I can't fancy him; I fancy too many companions already!

- I want Polly's dress. It's beautiful! Like her, even after a fight & lifting heavy machine parts. HOW DOES SHE DO IT?!

- WHOA! GO BEN FOR ESCAPING! ::cheers:: & gah, he's in such a state . . . I want to cuddle him & clean his face up a bit now. ::hugs him::

- Polly's breaking through her mind control! Come on, Duchess, you can do it! Fight, fight!

- One really believes in Ben & is very confident in his assessment of his character. & I definitely agree with him. Ben has a lot of strength of character & he's tough. If One is so solidly believing of him, then so am I. (of course, not that I didn't feel that way about him before, but now I really do. He's gelling with me as a character & as a future companion, he really is.)

- the war machines' firearms are a bit reminiscent of Dalek weaponry . . . I wonder if that was done on purpose or budgetary.

- Ha, I love how everyone runs, but One just stands there like, 'Bring it on, bitches. I'm ready.' ONE, WHY SO AWESOME, SERIOUSLY?

- One, if you get any more badass, my television will explode. BUT STILL, KEEP IT UP!

- Regarding One decoding & figuring out the war machine's programming & how many others they are & when they were supposed to attack?

ONE. ILU. WHY DOES NO ONE RESPECT YOU LIKE THEY SHOULD THESE DAYS?

- I'm falling in love with this serial, totally. & the hallmarks of Kit Pedler are everywhere, but they still remain considerably distinct from The Invasion. (I do know that The Tenth Planet was the official first début for the Cybermen & I do have it, but I haven't seen it yet, so I can't say anything for it)

- ♥♥♥ Ben & all his bravery.

- Now Ben's on something of a damn suicide mission to save Polly. DUDE, BEN/POLLY CANNOT BE DENIED & ANYONE WHO DOES SO IS A BIT BLIND.

- Hmm. The ending felt a bit anticlimatic to me. Ben getting Polly the fuck out of there before the war machine blew up WOTAN was great, but . . . I don't know, it just felt like it was missing something. It was good, but could have been better.

- ::sigh:: Yes, Dodo's departure was rather ham-fisted, I think. She could have at least made one last appearance to say goodbye herself.

- Polly's latest outfit is sharp! & yay for Ben in uniform! (♥♥) & oooo, looks like Ben & Polly are off with One now - without an invitation! This could get interesting, eh? ::grins::

Next three serials will be the recon of The Smugglers, The Tenth Planet (One ----> Two & then the great & mighty Troughton rewatch-athon really begins!) & The Power of the Daleks.

Comments

[nentari.livejournal.com]

Yay, recons recaps! (ugh, I can't write) And so many mentions of yours truly. :P *is flattered*

Well, here are my two cents:

The interaction between Ian & One is great during their scenes in the warehouse. They've become fairly equal, I would say. One is no longer as condescending to Ian as he was originally, & actually listens to him as well. Far different from their first interactions.
And also Ian treats the Doctor with more admiration and respect than he did at the beginning, when his reaction to him was (understandably) quite hostile.

Hmm. I was a bit underwhelmed by the Dalek coming out of the water, for some reason.
I have the feeling it's one of those things that worked better back when it first aired, and people only knew him from their first serial, where they were confined to their citadel and their mobility was limited to metallic surfaces. Anyone with knowledge of that would react just like One and Ian.

On the first viewing, I didn't like Jenny very much. Afterwards, I grew to like her more, especially in her scenes with Barbara later on.
I'm surprised how well-developed Jenny turned out, considering that she's a replacement character added in rewrites. Originally, her lines belonged to Dortmun's 12-year-old daughter Saida, who was to replace Susan aboard the TARDIS at the end of this serial, but when the powers that be decided Saida was perhaps a bit too young for their needs they created Vicki instead and wrote a 2-parter serial (The Rescue) to introduce her, and replaced Saida with Jenny.

Barbara Wright driving a bus, with Daleks all around her, then SMASHING RIGHT THROUGH A WHOLE LINE OF THEM.
She actually CRUSHED ONE OF THEM under a wheel! Now here's a scene to rub on the faces of all those who think '60s female companions are screamers who need to be rescued all the time.

also WTFPANDA? OMG, PANDA? IRIS WILDTHYME'S PANDA, IS THAT YOU?
*laughs* No, that's Hi-Fi, Steven's mascot. You know how all pilots, from racers to air force pilots, have mascots as good luck charms? Well, since Steven was a space pilot, he had Hi-Fi. :)
(incidentally, Hi-Fi will make a guest cameo in my fics at some point)
Interestingly, I've read three EDAs featuring Iris, but there's no panda in them. She has an orange talking poodle at some point (and Fitz drooling all over her) but no panda. Must be an audio thing. :P

One calls him a 'time meddler' - but he's still a Time Lord, yes? Just more on the Master-Rani side of the spectrum than on the Doctor-Iris Wildthyme side.
He is a Time Lord, yes, but since he's also an insufferable meddler... But he's not evil per se, though he was clearly willing to kill to achieve his goals (even if his plan was to achieve peace) and in his return to the show he allied himself with some truly evil creatures.

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

I LOVED doing this set of recaps! Usually I don't get so in-depth, I just make them short & quick. But nope, this time you lot are getting my full/half-finished meta & thoughts! :P

& it WAS your gentle nudge that got me to add The Dalek Invasion of Earth to the lineup & the GREAT (& ongoing!) conversations we're having. I don't know if I can think on anyone else who'd be willing to discuss this sort of minutiae with me. ::snuggles you::

And also Ian treats the Doctor with more admiration and respect than he did at the beginning, when his reaction to him was (understandably) quite hostile.

Yes indeed! They're a lot friendlier with each other as well; I noted it the best when they where in the Daleks' cell together & working on getting the door open. & I loved that One by then was turning to & including Ian in things he could most likely do himself, but still wanted or maybe needed just that extra bit of help. He's definitely become more accepting of him (& Barbara) since their first meeting. :D

(& odd little sticky note: I loved how Ian says 'You know, sometimes you astound me, Doctor.' & how One doesn't get all, 'WELL DUH, I SHOULD, I'M THE DOCTOR MY DEAR BOY', but just accepts it politely & gets back to the matter at hand. Another little layer of how One has changed from the very first story. & Ian, too, perhaps?)

I have the feeling it's one of those things that worked better back when it first aired, and people only knew him from their first serial, where they were confined to their citadel and their mobility was limited to metallic surfaces.

Agreed. I loved them in The Daleks (even if I was bloody well falling asleep toward the end - good serial, but it's SO slow & long-winded, I think) & I do feel that seeing them in their natural habitat was a bit more uncomfortable than seeing one sort of randomly pop out of the water. I got the effect that the bit was tring to achieve, but it just didn't really work on me. (maybe that's also because Cybermen freak me out a fair bit more than Daleks do. Shh! Don't tell Terry Nation! ::giggles::)

I'm surprised how well-developed Jenny turned out, considering that she's a replacement character added in rewrites. Originally, her lines belonged to Dortmun's 12-year-old daughter Saida, who was to replace Susan aboard the TARDIS at the end of this serial, but when the powers that be decided Saida was perhaps a bit too young for their needs they created Vicki instead and wrote a 2-parter serial (The Rescue) to introduce her, and replaced Saida with Jenny.

Once again, I must agree. On subsequent viewings, I really came to like her as a character & because I was actually typing all of this up WHILE rewatching it with production notes on, I was rather impressed how solid a character she ended up being, since she was a replacement for another, most-likely more developed character.

(& infinitejoys tells me that Vicki's first story is due to be released on DVD later this year! I AM SO HAPPY, I thought it was among the completely lost ones! MORE VICKI PLEASE!)

She actually CRUSHED ONE OF THEM under a wheel! Now here's a scene to rub on the faces of all those who think '60s female companions are screamers who need to be rescued all the time.

I'LL DRINK TO THAT! ::downs sparkly cider:: You know, someone ought to collect all the moments of the classic sixties companions & their moments of sheer AWESOME & resourcefulness, meta upon it a bit & share it about fandom sometime. DOWN WITH THE STEREOTYPICAL 'SCREAMERS WHO CAN'T HELP THEMSELVES' IDEA!

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

& because I too, broke the comment box in one go! (we ought to be PROUD of this, I think. :P)

*laughs* No, that's Hi-Fi, Steven's mascot. You know how all pilots, from racers to air force pilots, have mascots as good luck charms? Well, since Steven was a space pilot, he had Hi-Fi. :)
(incidentally, Hi-Fi will make a guest cameo in my fics at some point)
Interestingly, I've read three EDAs featuring Iris, but there's no panda in them. She has an orange talking poodle at some point (and Fitz drooling all over her) but no panda. Must be an audio thing. :P

HEE! Ahhhh, I get it now! & I DID hear him mention being a space pilot, but I guess I hadn't thought that fast when I heard it - Hi-Fi's so cute! (I love pandas, so Steven gets a big thumbs-up for his choice of mascot!)

& hmm, in Iris's audios, Panda belongs to or lives with a former companion of hers, so maybe he never was Iris's. Must research this . . .
(& OMG, she was in her Barbarella!Iris phase when she met Eight & Fitz, wasn't she? ::giggles:: I don't blame him!)

He is a Time Lord, yes, but since he's also an insufferable meddler... But he's not evil per se, though he was clearly willing to kill to achieve his goals (even if his plan was to achieve peace) and in his return to the show he allied himself with some truly evil creatures.

I actually made a mental spectrum of where all the known renegades would fall this morning - I was walking to the bus, you see - & I decided he, like Iris is more in the shady, grey, in-between, but a few levels darker than her, near the Master & the Rani, but still far enough not to be considered pure evil. Iris likes to drink & have fun, so she would be in the lighter spectrum, away from the Doctor & Susan. The Meddling Monk is further away from her, in the deepening shades of grey, as he isn't ultimately out to kill the Doctor, just screw around with history & can be far less scrupulous than the Doctor, but he still has scruples, unlike the Master & the Rani.

& how many serials did he feature in? I really liked him as another sort of opposite to the Doctor & I'd love to locate more of his stuff, if it survived.

[nentari.livejournal.com]

Aww. *snuggles back* 'Twas a pleasure. :)

He's definitely become more accepting of him (& Barbara) since their first meeting. :D
Wait until you see The Aztecs. One and Barbara are so snuggly together at times it almost feels as if Ian and Cameca should be worried. :P His relationship with Ian and Barbara did evolve wonderfully.

(& infinitejoys tells me that Vicki's first story is due to be released on DVD later this year! I AM SO HAPPY, I thought it was among the completely lost ones! MORE VICKI PLEASE!)
The set has already been released in the UK and it's been resting in my wish list ever since it became available for pre-order, but I haven't ordered it yet because it's a bit too expensive for me right now; I'll wait until the price drops a bit.

You know, someone ought to collect all the moments of the classic sixties companions & their moments of sheer AWESOME & resourcefulness, meta upon it a bit & share it about fandom sometime.
Yes, now that's a thought. Only all the moments put together would make for hours of material.

(& OMG, she was in her Barbarella!Iris phase when she met Eight & Fitz, wasn't she? ::giggles:: I don't blame him!)
Yes, she was. *grins* And in their next encounter (the one with the talking poodle) she had turned into a Shirley Bassey lookalike - only she was Scottish instead of Welsh.

I decided he, like Iris is more in the shady, grey, in-between, but a few levels darker than her, near the Master & the Rani, but still far enough not to be considered pure evil.
Yes, I think that makes a lot of sense.

& how many serials did he feature in? I really liked him as another sort of opposite to the Doctor & I'd love to locate more of his stuff, if it survived.
Unfortunately, the only other serial he was in was The Daleks' Master Plan; he must have been in about 2 or 3 episodes of that, of which only the last one survives (it's in the Lost in Time set). In this, the Monk allies himself with Tobias Vaughn Mavic Chen and the Daleks, but I get the feeling he's only doing it to save his own skin. There's a great moment in which he bluffs his way out of getting killed together with Steven and Sara, turns to the other two and says something like "Aren't you going to thank me? I've just saved us all" and Sara looks at him with a face that seems to shout "BITCH ARE YOU FOR REAL?"

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

Wait until you see The Aztecs. One and Barbara are so snuggly together at times it almost feels as if Ian and Cameca should be worried. :P His relationship with Ian and Barbara did evolve wonderfully.

HEE! I have been DYING to see The Aztecs ever since I read about it, in my early days of Classic!Who love - ONE GETS ENGAGED! & Barbara gets to wear the lovely Aztec goddess outfit! & incidentally, one of my favourite moments between One & Barbara is when he takes her hand at the end of The Edge of Destruction - it's SO cute & it's such a huge step, all in one little gesture. If I wasn't fully sold on Ian/Barbara, I might have been all, 'EEE, ONE/BARBARA!' ::giggles::

The set has already been released in the UK and it's been resting in my wish list ever since it became available for pre-order, but I haven't ordered it yet because it's a bit too expensive for me right now; I'll wait until the price drops a bit.

WHAT IT'S ALREADY IN THIS WORLD?! ::flops:: (& a few days ago, another friend told me that The Deadly Assassin was just released in the UK - I have NO clue when it comes out here & I AM DYING TO SEE IT.) ARGH, why must all pretty things be so expensive? D: Hopefully you CAN get it soon, though.

You know, someone ought to collect all the moments of the classic sixties companions & their moments of sheer AWESOME & resourcefulness, meta upon it a bit & share it about fandom sometime.
Yes, now that's a thought. Only all the moments put together would make for hours of material.

Indeed it would, but those are some hours I think this fandom as a WHOLE could use, from time to time. ;) Especially the new series crowd . . . ::coughs::

Yes, she was. *grins* And in their next encounter (the one with the talking poodle) she had turned into a Shirley Bassey lookalike - only she was Scottish instead of Welsh.

POODLE! :D & after a few moments of memory, I think Panda actually lived with a former companion of HERS - a fellow named Tom, I believe. I don't know WHERE he came from though; I assumed he was Iris's & left with Tom, but hmm, may have to research this further . . .

Fitz/Barbarella!Iris, anyone? Or, better yet, Eight/Fitz/Barbarella!Iris, anyone?

& our talk of where the best-known renegades of Gallifrey lie on a good-evil spectrum makes me want to make a graph to illustrate this . . . no, no, I will not give in, no no NO . . . aw, hell, maybe I should?

Unfortunately, the only other serial he was in was The Daleks' Master Plan; he must have been in about 2 or 3 episodes of that, of which only the last one survives (it's in the Lost in Time set). In this, the Monk allies himself with Tobias Vaughn Mavic Chen and the Daleks, but I get the feeling he's only doing it to save his own skin. There's a great moment in which he bluffs his way out of getting killed together with Steven and Sara, turns to the other two and says something like "Aren't you going to thank me? I've just saved us all" and Sara looks at him with a face that seems to shout "BITCH ARE YOU FOR REAL?"

DARN! Well, that's ANOTHER reason for me to find that set! (I STILL haven't found it; I might have to order it like I did with Tomb of the Cybermen) & DUDE. After your mere DESCRIPTION of Sara's face when he says that makes me want to meet her even more now! SARA, I DON'T EVEN KNOW YOU & I THINK YOU'RE PRETTY COOL! :D

[nentari.livejournal.com]

& incidentally, one of my favourite moments between One & Barbara is when he takes her hand at the end of The Edge of Destruction - it's SO cute & it's such a huge step, all in one little gesture.
Yes, I feel that Edge of Destruction is the turning point in the Doctor's relationship with Ian and Barbara. Things became considerable warmer after that.

WHAT IT'S ALREADY IN THIS WORLD?! ::flops::
Yes, first it's released in Region 2 DVDs in the UK, and then they recode it to Region 1 so that it can be watched on American DVD players. The different DVD regions annoys me, as it makes availability more difficult.

Hopefully you CAN get it soon, though.
I think I might go for Trial of a Time Lord first - it's a complete season (a 14-episode story!) and right now it's costing as much as The Rescue/The Romans at Amazon.uk.

& after a few moments of memory, I think Panda actually lived with a former companion of HERS - a fellow named Tom, I believe. I don't know WHERE he came from though; I assumed he was Iris's & left with Tom, but hmm, may have to research this further . . .
I'm afraid I can't be of much help there. In the EDAs she mentions her companions (and I have the feeling the name Tom is dropped at some point), but apart from the poodle she's companionless in the stories she appears in.

& our talk of where the best-known renegades of Gallifrey lie on a good-evil spectrum makes me want to make a graph to illustrate this . . . no, no, I will not give in, no no NO . . . aw, hell, maybe I should?
DO IIIIIT.

DARN! Well, that's ANOTHER reason for me to find that set!
Another reason (as I'm sure it will interest you) is The Crusade, which is featured the same way as The Moonbase, with the missing episodes being featured in their audio-only form. It has Vicki disguised as a boy, and Jean Marsh playing a small role as Richard Lionheart's sister Joanna - which means that, since she also played Sara in The Daleks' Master Plan and Morgaine in Battlefield, that Jean is one of the strongest recurring actresses in Who. (an interesting bit of trivia: Jean was married to Jon Pertwee when she played Joanna and Sara)
And Richard Lionheart is played by Julian Glover, who later on played Count Scalioni in City of Death.

& DUDE. After your mere DESCRIPTION of Sara's face when he says that makes me want to meet her even more now! SARA, I DON'T EVEN KNOW YOU & I THINK YOU'RE PRETTY COOL! :D
Sara is just made of awesome, yes. Here are a couple of screencaps I just took:


Sara is not impressed by the Monk's bullshit.


And here's the "BITCH ARE YOU FOR REAL?" face.

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

Yes, I feel that Edge of Destruction is the turning point in the Doctor's relationship with Ian and Barbara. Things became considerable warmer after that.

Couldn't agree more. Especially the ending, just as it leads into Marco Polo - you can tell things between the three of them are about to change for the better. :D

Yes, first it's released in Region 2 DVDs in the UK, and then they recode it to Region 1 so that it can be watched on American DVD players. The different DVD regions annoys me, as it makes availability more difficult.

Being sensible!Saffron aside, ARGH, WHY MUST IT TAKE SO LONG?! & why do we even NEED different region coding AT ALL? If we didn't have it, I'd probably have Blake's 7 & Emmerdale Farm already. Silly coding! ::pout::

I'm afraid I can't be of much help there. In the EDAs she mentions her companions (and I have the feeling the name Tom is dropped at some point), but apart from the poodle she's companionless in the stories she appears in.

You helped anyway! Now I can wait til I get to the EDAs properly instead of running around, scrolling up & down pages looking for Panda mentions. :D

& tomorrow, you may just get that graph. ;) (Trust me, graphing Gallifreyan renegades can EASILY be done, even on a Monday for me. ::giggles::)

Another reason (as I'm sure it will interest you) is The Crusade, which is featured the same way as The Moonbase, with the missing episodes being featured in their audio-only form. It has Vicki disguised as a boy, and Jean Marsh playing a small role as Richard Lionheart's sister Joanna - which means that, since she also played Sara in The Daleks' Master Plan and Morgaine in Battlefield, that Jean is one of the strongest recurring actresses in Who. (an interesting bit of trivia: Jean was married to Jon Pertwee when she played Joanna and Sara)
And Richard Lionheart is played by Julian Glover, who later on played Count Scalioni in City of Death.

My coherence just went out the window after reading that, so I'll just say I NEED TO HAVE THIS. P, & ::FLAILFLAIL:: ^-^

& yay screencaps! a) SARA IS GORGEOUS. SERIOUSLY. ::sigh:: & b) LOLZ AT THE SECOND ONE! You KNOW that's exactly what she's thinking; she's just way too polite to say it! :P

[nentari.livejournal.com]

Being sensible!Saffron aside, ARGH, WHY MUST IT TAKE SO LONG?! & why do we even NEED different region coding AT ALL? If we didn't have it, I'd probably have Blake's 7 & Emmerdale Farm already. Silly coding! ::pout::
Tell me about it. I had to buy a multi-region DVD player so that I could have Monty Python's Flying Circus on DVD, since at that time it unexplainably only existed in an American release even though it's a British show. Of course, afterwards it for an European release. *rolls eyes*

Trust me, graphing Gallifreyan renegades can EASILY be done, even on a Monday for me. ::giggles::
Well, if you think about it, it's not as if it's an extensive list, is it? Though I feel you should wait until The War Games before you make a final version of that graph.

b) LOLZ AT THE SECOND ONE! You KNOW that's exactly what she's thinking; she's just way too polite to say it! :P
Indeed. Her exact words were "WHAT?!?", but I really think there were some swearwords missing. :P

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

Tell me about it. I had to buy a multi-region DVD player so that I could have Monty Python's Flying Circus on DVD, since at that time it unexplainably only existed in an American release even though it's a British show. Of course, afterwards it for an European release. *rolls eyes*

UGGGGH! I've considered getting a multi-region DVD player SO I can get DVDs from the UK & a few from Japan, but I think I'm too cheap to commit, alas. (& I can't even think how'd I'd afford to get any of those pretty DVDs. D:)

Well, if you think about it, it's not as if it's an extensive list, is it? Though I feel you should wait until The War Games before you make a final version of that graph.

::grins:: True. & so, I shall! :D

O, Sara. WHY HAVE I NOT MET YOU YET? I MUST see that scene!

[nentari.livejournal.com]

(& I can't even think how'd I'd afford to get any of those pretty DVDs. D:)
I know what you mean. The price of American DVDs is not that high over here, but those of the Japanese ones are scary. But since I have no idea if my player can reproduce those, I think maybe it's for the best that I'm scared off by the price.

What I feel is especially unfair is that there are some DVDs with a Region 0 decoding, which are meant to be played anywhere - only when I looked at the fine print in one of my R0 discs, it stated "this DVD can be reproduced in players of any region except America". Apparently there's something else besides the DVD coding that will stop them from working properly.

O, Sara. WHY HAVE I NOT MET YOU YET? I MUST see that scene!
Also, the scene in episode 5 with the trampoline and Hartnell pulling silly faces, right? ;)

[nentari.livejournal.com]

Aaaaaand Part 2, because LJ is still hating on our verbosity.

First thing - interesting title sequence - I wonder if that was in the original broadcast, or if it was done for the DVD release.
It's from the original broadcast, yes. Some serials have credits and title sequences that look different from the norm, and the result is very cool - my favourites being the opening title and the closing credits in The Tenth Planet.

Hmm, Dodo never met the Daleks? Wow. Just a bit surprised on that.
Nope. The last Dalek serial before this story was The Daleks' Master Plan, and Dodo only made her debut at the very end of the story that followed.
The interesting about the mentioning of the Daleks in this scene is that, if we think about the show's timeline at this point, The War Machines takes place around the same time as The Faceless Ones, with the closing scene for both stories taking place on the very same day. Therefore, when One mentions that he is experiencing a feeling he only has when Daleks are around he is indeed correct since, at that very moment, the Daleks were probably somewhere near with Victoria's father laying the trap to attract Two and Jamie in Evil of the Daleks. I know that the writers hadn't planned so far ahead at this stage, but it all fits perfectly.

Evil!Polly? It's scaring me. Like, 'run & hide' scaring me. Polly, please, come back to your senses!
Anneke Wills does a great job in playing hypnotised. Chilly.

(Incidentally, since Anneke played Charley's mother in the audios, what are your thoughts on the possibility of Polly and Charley being related in some way?)

Ha, I love how everyone runs, but One just stands there like, 'Bring it on, bitches. I'm ready.'
One of the coolest cliffhangers EVER.

::sigh:: Yes, Dodo's departure was rather ham-fisted, I think. She could have at least made one last appearance to say goodbye herself.
Yes, the way she vanished from the show so quickly annoyed me. Through some discussion on the subject, alouzon and I formulated a theory about a reason why Dodo wouldn't have gone to say goodbye to the Doctor herself instead of making Polly the messenger: she was very close to Steven (Steven/Dodo is a very sweet and obvious ship, plus there's some suggestion that she's actually his descendant, which adds even another level to their relationship), and with this being the first story after his departure (she is clearly missing him at the beginning) she probably decided it was preferable to return home than carry on travelling without him - but knew that, if she saw the Doctor, she would probably change her mind.

[infinitejoys.livejournal.com]

(Steven/Dodo is a very sweet and obvious ship, plus there's some suggestion that she's actually his descendant, which adds even another level to their relationship)

*waves Steven/Anne flags* (They spent a night alone together! It totally could have happened.)

[nentari.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, it definitely could. It also explains how the Doctor's suspicion that Dodo descended from Anne was correct in spite of the fact so often discussed by the fandom that Anne's children would get the surname of her future husband rather than her maiden name: she was unmarried when she gave birth to her child.

And I've just realized I don't have any Steven icons. I must rectify this by grabbing episode 4 of The Celestial Toymaker and iconize his bum (yes, I'm shallow - and obsessed with bottoms, it seems).

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

You know, I think LJ & I need to have a little chat about UPPING THE DAMN COMMENT BOX SPACE! Five thousand characters is TOO. SHORT. (for us, anyway! ^-^)

It's from the original broadcast, yes. Some serials have credits and title sequences that look different from the norm, and the result is very cool - my favourites being the opening title and the closing credits in The Tenth Planet.

I loved the title sequences for The War Machines - as I said, v. ominous, unsettling & v. Kit Pedler-esque.

Nope. The last Dalek serial before this story was The Daleks' Master Plan, and Dodo only made her debut at the very end of the story that followed.
The interesting about the mentioning of the Daleks in this scene is that, if we think about the show's timeline at this point, The War Machines takes place around the same time as The Faceless Ones, with the closing scene for both stories taking place on the very same day. Therefore, when One mentions that he is experiencing a feeling he only has when Daleks are around he is indeed correct since, at that very moment, the Daleks were probably somewhere near with Victoria's father laying the trap to attract Two and Jamie in Evil of the Daleks. I know that the writers hadn't planned so far ahead at this stage, but it all fits perfectly.

I actually LOVE how Dodo has no idea of what Daleks are. It was a nice change, I think. One of the problems I have with the new series is that I think the Daleks are really becoming overused & they're starting to deteriorate as interest points, at least for myself. The Cybermen, however, feel a bit underused. Only . . . hmm . . . four stories of their own in the new series, not counting Nine seeing the head of one in Dalek (somewhat ironically) or Cyberwoman in Torchwood & one special which I haven't seen, whereas the Daleks have shown up in NINE stories. NINE. That's really overusing them, I think. I know they're really iconic & a big favourite, but by now, I'd trade one of those nine for more Cybermen, the Meddling Monk, Iris showing up, or even if I don't know him yet, the Celestial Toymaker or even the Wirrn. VARIETY, PLEASE! I mean, it just gets exhausting for all the companions to meet the Daleks all the time, & almost no other villain. Martha Jones, as far as I remember, never got to meet the Cybermen & I'd have loved to see that instead of Daleks in Manhattan.

Anyway, going back to your other point, it IS interesting that such a collision of storylines would happen all at once. I agree, at the time of The War Machines, no one had probably thought that far ahead yet, but maybe afterwards, in Two's era, the writers looked back to One's time & decided to make that connection, or maybe it was unconsciously? Though it makes a bit of sense for the closing of the The Faceless Ones taking place on the same day, since it was, I assume, not having got that far yet, about returning Ben & Polly to their own time. So maybe on some level, in the Troughton era, it WAS intentional.

& what you said about One feeling the feeling he feels when the Daleks are around, & that they probably were, to bring Two & Jamie in, makes me think of all the times that we DON'T see, where the Doctor has a good chance of running into himself on accident. I think, even if it IS a violation of the first law of time, it's a very high probability if you wander around time & space so much.

(& THAT, I think, just helped with the Eight/Jamie - who says there needs to be danger? It could just be a case of getting each TARDIS to work again, getting to know each other's companions & then saying goodbye, right?).

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

- Edited because I forgot to say a few things!

I have a feeling we'll be breaking comment boxes all through this rewatch-athon - wait til I get to Two & Jamie! :P

Yes, the way she vanished from the show so quickly annoyed me. Through some discussion on the subject, alouzon and I formulated a theory about a reason why Dodo wouldn't have gone to say goodbye to the Doctor herself instead of making Polly the messenger: she was very close to Steven (Steven/Dodo is a very sweet and obvious ship, plus there's some suggestion that she's actually his descendant, which adds even another level to their relationship), and with this being the first story after his departure (she is clearly missing him at the beginning) she probably decided it was preferable to return home than carry on travelling without him - but knew that, if she saw the Doctor, she would probably change her mind.

Now you know I can't say much on Steven, Dodo, or Steven/Dodo of course, but I do like your theory, especially the last half because I CAN say something on that, at least a bit!. I do remember her mentioning how much Steven would have liked to see the Tower & One agreeing, I believe. & I do agree that perhaps, if she had gone in person, she could have changed her mind, like Susan was prepared to do, until One talks her out of it gently.

& as a bit of silly, I WAS going to ask you if Dodo was the gal with all the groovy hats, until I saw your icon! I LOVE hats, but I never think they look good on me. Dodo's wearing that one in your icon well! :D

Anneke Wills does a great job in playing hypnotised. Chilly.

She really does - it's her eyes & voice, I think. Lovely, the both of them, but the potential to be quite frightening is still present in them.

(Incidentally, since Anneke played Charley's mother in the audios, what are your thoughts on the possibility of Polly and Charley being related in some way?)

AH, good question! The first time I found out Anneke was Charley's mother in the audios, & then that she was a former companion, I was BLOWN AWAY. (it was before I'd really met Polly; I was getting through Eight just then) I like to think it's a great possibility, personally & sometimes I wonder if Eight would have ever introduced Polly & Charley to each other. (& I'd be amused at the idea of Charley saying 'You sound just like my mother!' & Eight maaaaybe having a bit of explaining to do to her. ::laughs::) But I'm onboard with that being possible, definitely. & you've given me more to think about when I'm watching Polly be fab with One, then Two.

Ha, I love how everyone runs, but One just stands there like, 'Bring it on, bitches. I'm ready.'
One of the coolest cliffhangers EVER.

YES. It's like how he just stood there in front of an advancing Dalek in The Dalek Invasion of Earth with a similar air of, 'You don't scare me, you great metal pepperpot; I've got two wonderful aces up my sleeve!' ONE IS JUST TOTAL WIN ALL AROUND.

[nentari.livejournal.com]

I loved the title sequences for The War Machines - as I said, v. ominous, unsettling & v. Kit Pedler-esque.
The Tenth Planet is also Kit Pedler, so that's got to mean something...

Only . . . hmm . . . four stories of their own in the new series
Well, personally I feel that the Cybus Cybermen are being overused. They shoul let those drop and switch to the Telosian Cybermen of Old School days, with possibly a different appearance (a revamped version of their Old School look). But maybe that's just me.
A modern version of the Mondasian Cybermen (the ones from The Tenth Planet, whom I believe are a different branch from the Telosian ones but have originated from the same place) would also be interesting.

Martha Jones, as far as I remember, never got to meet the Cybermen & I'd have loved to see that instead of Daleks in Manhattan.
I have a short novella (Made of Steel, by Terrance Dicks) in which Martha meets the Cyberman. It's an interesting read.

but maybe afterwards, in Two's era, the writers looked back to One's time & decided to make that connection, or maybe it was unconsciously?
It's possible. *shrugs* But alas, I doubt we'll ever know.

& what you said about One feeling the feeling he feels when the Daleks are around, & that they probably were, to bring Two & Jamie in, makes me think of all the times that we DON'T see, where the Doctor has a good chance of running into himself on accident.
In a way, I feel that's what happened in The Two Doctors. You'll have to wait and see if it fits the "accidental crossing of timelines" possibility, though.

I do agree that perhaps, if she had gone in person, she could have changed her mind, like Susan was prepared to do, until One talks her out of it gently.
I am sure that's what would have happened, yes. And just so you know, I'm going to be working it in the Fourteenverse at some point because I feel it should be addressed, and because I want to give Dodo a proper farewell.

& as a bit of silly, I WAS going to ask you if Dodo was the gal with all the groovy hats, until I saw your icon! I LOVE hats, but I never think they look good on me. Dodo's wearing that one in your icon well! :D
I look TERRIBLE on hats, I'm afraid. Dodo, on the other hand, looks cute enough for both of us. (Fourteen will be "borrowing" that hat from my icon, by the way.)

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

The Tenth Planet is also Kit Pedler, so that's got to mean something...

Yes, yes indeed . . . & I just remembered that The Tenth Planet is also the very first appearance of the Cybermen, so while I AM a little sad at having to lose One, I'm also really excited to see how the very first Cybermen looked! (I'm starting to think that ANY time I have to see a Doctor regenerate, I will just get so sad. He really is wonderful - ALL of him.)

Well, personally I feel that the Cybus Cybermen are being overused. They shoul let those drop and switch to the Telosian Cybermen of Old School days, with possibly a different appearance (a revamped version of their Old School look). But maybe that's just me.
A modern version of the Mondasian Cybermen (the ones from The Tenth Planet, whom I believe are a different branch from the Telosian ones but have originated from the same place) would also be interesting.

The Telosian Cybermen would be like the ones in your icon, & in The Invasion, yes? I actually would agree with you there; I think they'd be more iconic for those of us more familiar with the classic series but still a way of keeping the look of the Cybermen fresh for everyone else. I actually DON'T much like the look of the newer Cybermen, really - something about them just bothers me & seems a little off, now that I've seen the originals. They just feel too human, I suppose, & the original ones felt much more inhuman, at least to me.

I have a short novella (Made of Steel, by Terrance Dicks) in which Martha meets the Cyberman. It's an interesting read.

O! Is she with UNIT or still with Ten in it? & how does she handle them? Is it in published form, or .PDF?

It's possible. *shrugs* But alas, I doubt we'll ever know.

Sadly, it'll just have to remain one of the unsolved mysteries of the original series, then. ::sigh:: But my theory is IT IS. :D

I am sure that's what would have happened, yes. And just so you know, I'm going to be working it in the Fourteenverse at some point because I feel it should be addressed, and because I want to give Dodo a proper farewell.

O, that's wonderful to hear! From what I gather, Dodo's one of the most forgotten & neglected companions of all of them. It's good that you plan on giving her a real sendoff!

I look TERRIBLE on hats, I'm afraid. Dodo, on the other hand, looks cute enough for both of us. (Fourteen will be "borrowing" that hat from my icon, by the way.)

HA! I ALMOST bought a very cute, almost Dodo-esque hat today, but at the last minute, decided on putting it back because I knew I'd never wear it. (& AWESOME! I bet Fourteen will look FABULOUS in it herself as well!)

[nentari.livejournal.com]

Yes, yes indeed . . . & I just remembered that The Tenth Planet is also the very first appearance of the Cybermen, so while I AM a little sad at having to lose One, I'm also really excited to see how the very first Cybermen looked!
I thought I was going to hate their look, since their faces are basically made of cloth, but it's actually really very effective. What they did with their mouths when they speak creeps me out.

The Telosian Cybermen would be like the ones in your icon, & in The Invasion, yes?
Yes, indeed. Because the Cybermen in The Tenth Planet come from Mondas while the ones in Tomb of the Cybermen come from Telos, I've devised a small theory of mine to explain the discrepancy: Cybermen originally came from Mondas, but eventually separated into two factions, with one of them migrating to Telos. The two factions evolved differently, which explains the different looks, and the ay they dehumanized themselves in Mondas explains why they have a certain weakness that doesn't affect the Cybermen featured from The Moonbase onwards (all of them, in my eyes, are Telosian, with only those from their first serial hailing from Mondas).

I actually DON'T much like the look of the newer Cybermen, really - something about them just bothers me & seems a little off, now that I've seen the originals. They just feel too human, I suppose, & the original ones felt much more inhuman, at least to me.
They're still more inhuman than they are in Revenge of the Cybermen; I have to confess I was a bit disappointed with the way they turned out on that serial - not just because they had completely human voices, but because they had very emotional and human-like attitudes; I kept expecting the Cyberleader (played by Christopher Robbie, who played the Karkus in The Mind Robber) to put his hands on his hips and slap his tigh at times. *shakes head*

Besides prefering the originals, I feel that the Cybus Cybermen are also a bit too noisy. The Mondasians and Telosians had the advantage of stealth and could sneak into people, but the Cybus ones are so noisy with their stompy feet you can hear them a mile away. It takes a lot of the menace, in my eyes. (plus, the "delete" catchphrase gets on my nerves)

! Is she with UNIT or still with Ten in it? & how does she handle them?
It takes place halfway through season 3, so she's still with Ten. There's some UNIT in it, though. Poor Martha is taken hostage by the Cybermen because they want Ten to do something for them, but she has a few shiny moments - and it allows her to think of her cousin Adeola, which I feel was a nice touch.
Sadly, I don't have it in .pdf; it came for free with a magazine I bought over a year ago.

O, that's wonderful to hear! From what I gather, Dodo's one of the most forgotten & neglected companions of all of them. It's good that you plan on giving her a real sendoff!
Dodo is also one of the most loathed companions, which baffles me. But then again, I'm also baffled with all the hate that's geared towards Mel and Adric. *shrugs* I can accept people hating on Mike Yates or Adam, even if I personally don't (I feel like slapping Mike for what he does to Benton in Day of the Daleks, though), but then again there's tangible reasons for people to dislike them.
There's something I want to do with her, and which I hope is not too soppy. Let's see how the fic progresses, as I might change my mind with time.

(& AWESOME! I bet Fourteen will look FABULOUS in it herself as well!)
In a way, Fourteen looks like a combination of Susan and Dodo (she has a strong, uncanny resemblance to Susan, but her eyes are brown and her nose is shaped like Dodo's), and they were both lovely in that sort of hats, so I'm sure she'll look great.

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

I thought I was going to hate their look, since their faces are basically made of cloth, but it's actually really very effective. What they did with their mouths when they speak creeps me out.

Oooooo. I'm tempted to race my way through The Smugglers to see the very first Cybermen, but I'll pace myself, I swear. & if they're creeping you out after all this time, then they'll most likely be giving me a few chills too - the Classic!Cybermen always do.

Yes, indeed. Because the Cybermen in The Tenth Planet come from Mondas while the ones in Tomb of the Cybermen come from Telos, I've devised a small theory of mine to explain the discrepancy: Cybermen originally came from Mondas, but eventually separated into two factions, with one of them migrating to Telos. The two factions evolved differently, which explains the different looks, and the ay they dehumanized themselves in Mondas explains why they have a certain weakness that doesn't affect the Cybermen featured from The Moonbase onwards (all of them, in my eyes, are Telosian, with only those from their first serial hailing from Mondas).

Hooray for me knowing my different models of Cybermen! :D ::has earned her badge in Cybermen studies:: Anyway, on a more useful point, though I can't say anything for the Mondasian Cybermen until I see them, nevertheless, I like your theory. I think it fits the Cybermen mindset quite well. & I think I could adopt your idea of all Cybermen from The Moonbase on as being Telosian as well - I'm actually trying NOT to come up with any theories or ideas of my own until I've seen The Tenth Planet, but since the master vault is located on Telos & as far as I know, no reference is made to Mondas again, it would seem like perhaps the Telosian faction became a bit stronger than the Mondasian faction & either destroyed the latter, or forced them into becoming more Telosian. Unless of course, I'm wrong & that there ARE references to Mondas later on & I just opened my big mouth too soon. :)

(& after that, would it be a safe assumption that the titular tenth planet is Mondas itself, then? Feel free to hit me with the clue bat for this obviously answerable question.)

They're still more inhuman than they are in Revenge of the Cybermen; I have to confess I was a bit disappointed with the way they turned out on that serial - not just because they had completely human voices, but because they had very emotional and human-like attitudes; I kept expecting the Cyberleader (played by Christopher Robbie, who played the Karkus in The Mind Robber) to put his hands on his hips and slap his tigh at times. *shakes head*

O, that's rather disappointing to hear, actually. :( I was looking forward to something like The Moonbase sort of Cybermen facing off against Four, Sarah & Harry. But I'm ALSO watching it because it's part of Harry's little travelling arc, & because as far as I know, Four never really interacted with the Cybermen after that, so I'll try not to let that deter me from really enjoying it.

& YES, the Cybus Cybermen are too bloody noisy, honestly! The Cybus ones, with all the noise they make, would be a fairly easy take-down for the Doctor if he heard them coming & had time for Polly to whip out the nail varnish remover to get out of their way or just blow them to scraps. The Daleks have always been pretty quiet - you don't really know it's them until they start talking, or until you see them, even in the new series & that gives them a fair advantage of sneaking up on someone. The Cybermen, in my opinion, also need to be pretty stealthy, considering that they're basically metallic - if they have no stealth, then they may as well just walk down the street & kill people, not be sequestered in laboratories or vaults.

(I kind of thought their 'delete' catchphrase was a bit of a giggle myself! It's so . . . I don't know, so . . . internet, I suppose, that I get a bit of a chuckle out of it. But really, I think it's just Daleks that can get away with a good catchphrase & not annoy the ears off you with it. & um, theirs scare me more anyway. EXTERMINATE! > YOU WILL BE DELETED, y/n?)

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

I think in addition to earning my badge in Cyberman Studies, I should get one for smashing comment boxes to pieces with a seven thousand plus character comment. :P

ANYWAY!

It takes place halfway through season 3, so she's still with Ten. There's some UNIT in it, though. Poor Martha is taken hostage by the Cybermen because they want Ten to do something for them, but she has a few shiny moments - and it allows her to think of her cousin Adeola, which I feel was a nice touch.
Sadly, I don't have it in .pdf; it came for free with a magazine I bought over a year ago.

AWW! I'd have LOVED to read that - Martha & the Cybermen would be a pretty interesting thing, I think! (but I'm just more partial to them than Daleks anyway; plus, I didn't like how they were handled in Daleks in Manhattan that much - a bit out of character for me.) Even IF she was still with Ten, I'd have loved to read it. But Martha being with UNIT & the Cybermen (Telosian, thankyouverymuch!) invading Earth would have great potential as a fic, I think. I love Martha being with UNIT, even though I HATE, HATE, HATE what they did to it in series four, & I'd like to see how her branch would handle a NON-DALEK, no assistance from the Doctor (but maybe some former companions?) invasion of Earth. Kind of a Pertwee era-esque storyline, I think, but without the Doctor. (or, WITH any Doctor, BUT NOT TEN.)

Dodo is also one of the most loathed companions, which baffles me. But then again, I'm also baffled with all the hate that's geared towards Mel and Adric. *shrugs* I can accept people hating on Mike Yates or Adam, even if I personally don't (I feel like slapping Mike for what he does to Benton in Day of the Daleks, though), but then again there's tangible reasons for people to dislike them.

. . . Wait, WHAT did Dodo do to get so much animosity from folks? She seemed like a nice girl to me; I just hated her exit. & Mel's one of the one's I HAVEN'T met yet (& I've met almost all thirty plus companions) but I assume it's a case of 'OMG WHAT A SCREAMER' or some such - I've heard Mel DOES scream on occasion, but from what I've seen in little clips & read about, she seems nice!

Adric on the other hand . . . well, I'm honestly & truly on the fence with him - he bugs me for some reason, but it could be because I've merely found so much dislike directed towards him that I've unconsciously taken that stance on him myself, which is why I asked for Black Orchid & Earthshock - I want to do my own thinking & form my own opinion of him & not just go with everyone else's because I don't know him that well. There are plenty of reasons to hate some companions - I hated Martha for a while because of her feelings about Ten & how she seemed to constantly yak about them - I felt like the writers just defined her through those feelings, but in time, I got past that & I really like her now. Tegan could be grating, that I could see, even though I like her take-charge attitude in Castrovalva. Jo, whom I love, I can see why she would annoy people. But as you said, those are tangible reasons, not just random hate. It's like all the Gwen-hate in the Torchwood fandom to a certain extent - half may have some actual basis, the rest is just cooked-up nonsense.

(Adric? I thought he was kind of sweet in The Keeper of Traken, honestly. I also kind of shipped him with Nyssa!)

In a way, Fourteen looks like a combination of Susan and Dodo (she has a strong, uncanny resemblance to Susan, but her eyes are brown and her nose is shaped like Dodo's), and they were both lovely in that sort of hats, so I'm sure she'll look great.

Susan could indeed wear a hat well! :D (& if you wondered where my random idea for Jamie/Susan came along . . . well . . . ::whistles casually::)

[nentari.livejournal.com]

I think in addition to earning my badge in Cyberman Studies, I should get one for smashing comment boxes to pieces with a seven thousand plus character comment. :P
*snerk*

But Martha being with UNIT & the Cybermen (Telosian, thankyouverymuch!) invading Earth would have great potential as a fic, I think.
it definitely would. Sadly, the Cybermen in the book were of the Cybus variety...

. . . Wait, WHAT did Dodo do to get so much animosity from folks? She seemed like a nice girl to me; I just hated her exit.
I don't understand the hate either. Some people dislike her because they feel she was badly written, and others hate her because "she's fugly" (WTF? Really, WTF?????).

I've heard Mel DOES scream on occasion, but from what I've seen in little clips & read about, she seems nice!
She is nice - and cuddly and adorable, and I wish I could have seen more of her with Six than beyond Trial of a Time Lord as she was clearly designed to go well with that particular Doctor. Her screams are shriller than usual, I have to admit, but I really can't see why she should have such a bad rep about it.

which is why I asked for Black Orchid & Earthshock - I want to do my own thinking & form my own opinion of him & not just go with everyone else's because I don't know him that well.
There's a scene at the beginning of Earthshock that the Adric haters like to point out as an example why they dislike him - though personally I see both him and Five being obnoxious in it. I'm surprised Tegan and Nyssa didn't roll their eyes on their direction.

Adric? I thought he was kind of sweet in The Keeper of Traken, honestly.
I think people would have appreciated him more if he had had more adventures with Four - I feel he worked better with Four than Five, as that sweetness in his personality was more evident. With Five meing so much more youthful, the father & son type of relationship they had just was not possible after the regeneration (and I feel it's the problem behind that scene at the opening of Earthshock - with Four, that argument would never had happened).

(& if you wondered where my random idea for Jamie/Susan came along . . . well . . . ::whistles casually::)
I think the Doctor would frown at that, though. :P

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

I don't understand the hate either. Some people dislike her because they feel she was badly written, and others hate her because "she's fugly" (WTF? Really, WTF?????).

::points to icon:: THE DOCTOR DOES NOT APPROVE, NOR UNDERSTAND SUCH SUPERFICIAL COMMENTS ON HIS COMPANIONS. Badly-written is ONE thing, hating the gal 'cause she's not pretty like Romana, Sarah or Rose? BULLSHIT. ARGUMENT & OPINION RENDERED ENTIRELY INVALID THE MINUTE THAT GETS PULLED OUT.

She is nice - and cuddly and adorable, and I wish I could have seen more of her with Six than beyond Trial of a Time Lord as she was clearly designed to go well with that particular Doctor. Her screams are shriller than usual, I have to admit, but I really can't see why she should have such a bad rep about it.

Awww, she sounds like a cutie! & didn't she get Six on a carrot juice diet at one point? COME ON! That's not a bad thing, that's sweet & shows she cares about her Doctor's health! I've wanted to see Trial of a Time Lord for a while, due to my Doctor/Master obsession, but I haven't had a chance to - & yes, I'm a little leery of Six & I don't want Dead!Peri - too sad! But maybe I'll try it out one day?

There's a scene at the beginning of Earthshock that the Adric haters like to point out as an example why they dislike him - though personally I see both him and Five being obnoxious in it.

Another thing to hold onto when I get there. (& honestly, the Doctor himself can be a brat at times, yet he's not called out on it nearly as much as his companions are, I've noted. Or maybe that's just me?)

I think people would have appreciated him more if he had had more adventures with Four - I feel he worked better with Four than Five, as that sweetness in his personality was more evident.

I could see that, even in the two stories I saw him in with Four - it was very father-son-like & I found it very sweet. Maybe I DO need to be more open-minded about Adric - if I think he's sweet enough in two stories & I can ship him with Nyssa, then I must like him a little, even if I don't think I do.

I think the Doctor would frown at that, though. :P

::giggles madly:: Yes, he just might. :P

[nentari.livejournal.com]

Badly-written is ONE thing, hating the gal 'cause she's not pretty like Romana, Sarah or Rose? BULLSHIT.
And when the haters use the "badly-written" argument, they should be hating on the writers, not on the poor characters. Besides, the problem with the writing didn't affect Dodo in herself. Sure, she had a lousy introduction and an equally lousy departure (when pointing out the trouble with the writing, a Dodo fan wrote on a tribute that she had a non-beginning and a non-end) but she got to shine in her middle stories.

& didn't she get Six on a carrot juice diet at one point?
She did. In fact, the last words Colin Baker said as Six were "Carrot juice, carrot juice, carrot juice." All thanks to Mel. :P

& yes, I'm a little leery of Six & I don't want Dead!Peri - too sad! But maybe I'll try it out one day?
You should probably check out some other stories of Six before Trial, I think, just to see if you really like Six. His BFAs are a good place to start, actually, as Colin gets to be the amazing Doctor he wanted but which JNT did not allow him to be onscreen. Plus, the hair and the coat are not visible in those. ;)
As for dead!Peri, I have to say that it's a very powerful scene, and it could have been as intense as the final scenes of Katarina and Adric if JNT hadn't decided to cop out at the very end of Trial. Well, if I must be honest, I'm a bit torn between the originally planned departure, for allowing Peri to go with a bang, and the cop-out, because I'm a sap.
(Incidentally, the cop-out is mentioned in the first of my fics, when Fourteen tells Jamie what happened to Peri; just a warning. a Peri fan I know told me she was delighted with the twist I gave and that she now not only accepts the cop-out but has inserted my version of it in her personal canon. *is smug*)

& honestly, the Doctor himself can be a brat at times, yet he's not called out on it nearly as much as his companions are, I've noted. Or maybe that's just me?
No, it's definitely not you. Seriously, unless it's Six (who tends to get the weight of the fandom whenever he does anything remotely obnoxious), it looks as if the Doctors can get away with murder.

Maybe I DO need to be more open-minded about Adric - if I think he's sweet enough in two stories & I can ship him with Nyssa, then I must like him a little, even if I don't think I do.
Wait until you see him and Nyssa in a scene from Black Orchid. She calls him a pig, and it makes me giggle like a fool; those two were really funny together - the two young geniuses (makes me wonder how Zoe would react to having another genius her age around).

::giggles madly:: Yes, he just might. :P
Oh yeah - look at my new icon. Jamie should watch out if he ever even dares to look at Susan funny. :P

[nentari.livejournal.com]

Oooooo. I'm tempted to race my way through The Smugglers to see the very first Cybermen, but I'll pace myself, I swear.
Please do. :) The Smugglers is sadly unappreciated and dismissed as just "the story between The War Machines and The Tenth Planet, but I really liked it - even if I find it hard to believe people would so easily mistake Polly for a boy.

it would seem like perhaps the Telosian faction became a bit stronger than the Mondasian faction & either destroyed the latter, or forced them into becoming more Telosian. Unless of course, I'm wrong & that there ARE references to Mondas later on & I just opened my big mouth too soon. :)
There are no references to Mondas after The Tenth Planet, as far as I know, but I can say with utmost certainty that the Mondasians were neither destroyed nor assimilated by the Telosians. You'll have to watch that story to see what I mean. However, I can say that the Telosians are indeed stronger, as the Mondasians have a personal weakness that easily explains why the Telosians are still around while the Mondasians have not returned.

Edit: While looking for some information on Mondas, I've discovered a synopsis of the Sixth Doctor serial Attack of the Cybermen, in which Six tells this to Peri and a friend: "[after The Tenth Planet] the surviving Cybermen evacuated to Telos, wiped out the indigenous Cryons and transformed their refridgerated cities into cryogenic tombs in which to hibernate and recover their strength." So I guess this means the Telosians descend from the Mondasians rather than them being two different factions. Ah well, I don't mind - as long as Mondas is the original home planet, I'm happy. :)

(& after that, would it be a safe assumption that the titular tenth planet is Mondas itself, then? Feel free to hit me with the clue bat for this obviously answerable question.)
Indeed, Mondas is the tenth planet. Though, of course, now that Pluto has been demoted, "ninth planet" would have been the definition used if this story had been filmed today. :P

But I'm ALSO watching it because it's part of Harry's little travelling arc, & because as far as I know, Four never really interacted with the Cybermen after that, so I'll try not to let that deter me from really enjoying it.
I'm sure you'll still enjoy it. Kevin Stoney (Tobias Vaughn/Mavic Chen) is there in yet another role - though this time he's not the villain and he's so heavily made-up it took me until the closing credits to realize where I knew that voice from. :P And the Cybermat are actually creepy in this one - they look like oversized silverfish.

The Cybermen, in my opinion, also need to be pretty stealthy, considering that they're basically metallic - if they have no stealth, then they may as well just walk down the street & kill people, not be sequestered in laboratories or vaults.
Exactly. If we think about it, the reason why they were such an effective menace in The Moonbase was because nobody could hear them walking about. It made it hard for the crew to believe they were involved util they actually saw them.

But really, I think it's just Daleks that can get away with a good catchphrase & not annoy the ears off you with it.
I think Daleks are the problem here for me - "delete" sounds too much like "exterminate" in my brain, as if RTD was trying to draw parallels between the two species. I prefer the Telosian catchphrase, especially with that voice they had during the Troughton era: "You belong to us. You shall be like us."

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

I shall, I shall! Hooray for holidays & summer coming up - loads of time to watch as much as I wish! :D

(& yes, I don't quite believe Polly could be so easily mistaken for a boy either - I'm chalking it up to her clothes & hopefully, that men weren't as . . . keen on eyeing a lady's figure in the seventeenth century!)

Edit: While looking for some information on Mondas, I've discovered a synopsis of the Sixth Doctor serial Attack of the Cybermen, in which Six tells this to Peri and a friend: "[after The Tenth Planet] the surviving Cybermen evacuated to Telos, wiped out the indigenous Cryons and transformed their refridgerated cities into cryogenic tombs in which to hibernate and recover their strength." So I guess this means the Telosians descend from the Mondasians rather than them being two different factions. Ah well, I don't mind - as long as Mondas is the original home planet, I'm happy. :)

O, thankyou for having found that! :D & it seems to make sense & fit with already-established canon, so I can accept it readily.

Indeed, Mondas is the tenth planet. Though, of course, now that Pluto has been demoted, "ninth planet" would have been the definition used if this story had been filmed today. :P

HEE! Yes. You know, I DO wonder what the Doctor would say about Pluto's demotion from planet to moon. :P

I'm sure you'll still enjoy it. Kevin Stoney (Tobias Vaughn/Mavic Chen) is there in yet another role - though this time he's not the villain and he's so heavily made-up it took me until the closing credits to realize where I knew that voice from. :P And the Cybermat are actually creepy in this one - they look like oversized silverfish.

AWESOME! :D & I'm really looking forward to seeing Four fighting with Cybermen - one of my favourite Doctors & my favourite villains - bring it on! :D

If we think about it, the reason why they were such an effective menace in The Moonbase was because nobody could hear them walking about. It made it hard for the crew to believe they were involved util they actually saw them.

YES. & the fact that the Cybermen were SO stealthy & clever enough to disguise themselves in the one place they knew no one would logically look for them . . . chilling & awesome at once.

I think Daleks are the problem here for me - "delete" sounds too much like "exterminate" in my brain, as if RTD was trying to draw parallels between the two species. I prefer the Telosian catchphrase, especially with that voice they had during the Troughton era: "You belong to us. You shall be like us."

Considering their meetup in Army of Ghosts & Doomsday, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he DID intend to do just that. But I don't think you CAN draw parallels between either species - Daleks will kill ANYTHING in order to become the dominant species, whereas Cybermen want to assimilate other races into their own in order to become the more dominant species.

& ARGH, that IS a scary catchphrase, at least to me - RTD should have stuck with the original, not, for a lack of better term, upgraded it.

[nentari.livejournal.com]

Hooray for holidays & summer coming up - loads of time to watch as much as I wish! :D
Indeed. That's what I'm doing right now. :)

& yes, I don't quite believe Polly could be so easily mistaken for a boy either - I'm chalking it up to her clothes & hopefully, that men weren't as . . . keen on eyeing a lady's figure in the seventeenth century!
Exactly. Vicki is much more convincing as "Victor" in The Cruzades, but she's shorter and therefore more believable as a young boy, and her voice is an octave lower than Polly's - and yet her disguise is eventually blown.

HEE! Yes. You know, I DO wonder what the Doctor would say about Pluto's demotion from planet to moon. :P
"Poppycock! What levels of silliness can the human mind achieve when they try to dabble with science."

But I don't think you CAN draw parallels between either species
You can if you're RTD. :P

[nam-jai.livejournal.com]

Ah, one of the best companion departures, and one of the worst. Poor Dodo. She didn't deserve to be so cavalierly tossed aside by the writers. I do agree with nentari that her departure can make sense if you see it as motivated by losing Steven, since she was so close to him. But of course, we have to fill in those blanks.

But Susan's departure was handled wonderfully. And I adore her and David. It's hard to sell "I just met you, I love you, I'm going to marry you!" but this is one of the times DW pulled it off, in part because the actors had a sweet chemistry. Also, I like that a second motivation for staying was given to Susan, the appeal of helping to rebuild Earth. Along with a previously established third -- her desire for a home, to stay in one place. It makes for a nicely complex mix.

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

Best of both worlds (or best & worst of it, if you'd like) in one go, yes? Poor girl - she could have at least had a bit of a better send-off than that & I've only just met her!

But Susan's departure was handled wonderfully. And I adore her and David. It's hard to sell "I just met you, I love you, I'm going to marry you!" but this is one of the times DW pulled it off, in part because the actors had a sweet chemistry.

Yes, yes! I think there was just ONE scene where it didn't quite work for me, but that was on the fourth or fifth time I'd seen it, so it could have just been because I knew what would happen. But I must say, it was certainly handled better than some romances I've seen in the new series & without being detrimental to Susan's character in any way . . . not that I'm naming names, or anything . . . ::whistles::

Also, I like that a second motivation for staying was given to Susan, the appeal of helping to rebuild Earth. Along with a previously established third -- her desire for a home, to stay in one place. It makes for a nicely complex mix.

With all three of those factors, that was definitely solid enough for me to accept Susan's departure - heck, I would have been happy with just those two, if that was all we would have had! :D But I love that she also stayed because she was in love with David - it softened everything just a bit & made a great, well-rounded coming of age for her, I'd say.

(GAH, NEED ONE & SUSAN ICONS.)

[nam-jai.livejournal.com]

(GAH, NEED ONE & SUSAN ICONS.)

I made bunches and bunches when I took on Susan during loves_them_all's Companion Posting Month! /pimping

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

& naturally, I've raced over & nicked plenty of Susan pretties! :D ::glomp::

[backinblackk.livejournal.com]

I LOVE that you're doing this. It's totally one of my goals. When I first started watching Classic Who, I wanted to go in order. And then I got antsy and wanted to see Tom Baker, hah.

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

Aww, thanks, sweetcakes! ::glomps:: When I picked up Classic!Who, I'd just intended to see all of Sarah's stuff, move on to Doctor/Master serials, then be done with it. Who ever knew I'd go this far? ^_____^

TOM BAKER IS WORTH SKIPPING AHEAD FOR, MADAME. ::nods:: THAT VOICE, O.M.G. (but you already know that. :P)

[infinitejoys.livejournal.com]

Eee, First Doctor era!! Some of my favorite people are in this era :D Beware of the oncoming squee.

it's kind of funny - when I first saw One in An Unearthly Child, I wasn't too sure if I would like him at all.

You just summed up One's handicap in a sentence -- lots of people base their opinions of him on An Unearthly Child, where he's at his most irascible and cantankerous, and assume that's how he is all the time, not knowing there's so much more to him than that. I once read a comment from someone where they described One as selfish and resenting his companions, and that couldn't be further from the truth. He's wonderful.

- Vicki continues to be take-charge & awesome all through this story. I APPROVE.
I adore Vicki -- her relationship with One and how they look at each other as surrogate family is lovely. She gets a terrible departure, but she has some great moments before that. For awesome Vicki-ness, watch "The Space Museum." She starts a revolution! (And "The Romans" is an essential One story if you haven't seen it yet. It has One and Vicki being mischievous and adorable and Ian and Barbara being totally shippy. I think it comes out on DVD in the US in a couple months, along with Vicki's first story, "The Rescue.")

Steven is fantastic too. He has a great rapport with Vicki (Dodo too!), and one of the best things about him is that he is not afraid to call the Doctor out on his shit. Too many of his serials were burninated :(

And then there is Polly (who also has way too many burninated stories), who I just love massively, and I am so happy that you love her so far! She's another one who gets unfairly written off as an ineffectual screamer, but I occasionally wonder what episodes they were watching, because while she does scream and put the kettle on, she also shows herself to be clever, resourceful, proactive, and caring. She's fabulous. Her chatting cheering up of Ben is beyond adorable. (I should probably finish that "Why Polly is Awesome" meta-y thing I started a while back, shouldn't I?)

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

The First Doctor era is GREAT. I'm actually a little sad to have to move on to Two soon - & HE'S what I'm going through all of this for!

lots of people base their opinions of him on An Unearthly Child, where he's at his most irascible and cantankerous, and assume that's how he is all the time, not knowing there's so much more to him than that. I once read a comment from someone where they described One as selfish and resenting his companions, and that couldn't be further from the truth. He's wonderful.

WHAT! OKAY, someone needs to be hit over the head sat down with copies of The Aztecs, The Dalek Invasion of Earth & The Time Meddler & have a bit of a history lesson on One, I think. I admit, I almost DID come off disliking him when I first met him, but I wanted to a) learn my history properly & b) give him a chance. I'd heard about his relationship with Susan & I thought it sounded quite nice, so already, snarky & snappy as he was at first, he already had one redeeming quality for me. He IS wonderful - & you KNOW the person who said that probably knows next to nothing about Classic!Who. ::sigh:: I think it should be a requirement sometimes, for everyone who comes into this fandom, to watch ONE serial from EACH Doctor, so you know SOMETHING about all of them. That's how I did it & look at all of the Doctors I've fallen in love with! Six is the one I have left to see & despite what I've heard of him, I'm giving him a chance. Then I'll make a judgement.

I adore Vicki -- her relationship with One and how they look at each other as surrogate family is lovely.

I DEFINITELY saw that within seconds of starting The Time Meddler - she hasn't replaced Susan, but she's instrumental in keeping One from becoming cold & bitter, I think, because she's a surrogate granddaughter to him. That's an aspect I just loved of that serial.

OMG, MORE VICKI SERIALS! :D Has The Space Museum been released on DVD? I feel like I've seen it, but I could be getting mixed up with other titles . . . & I was worried that her first story had been completely lost, so hearing that we'll be getting it on DVD is the best news! (& yay Ian/Barbara shippy fun! NOTHING will dissuade me from my thoughts that they were married after leaving the Doctor. Nothing at all.)

Steven is fantastic too. He has a great rapport with Vicki (Dodo too!), and one of the best things about him is that he is not afraid to call the Doctor out on his shit.

AGREED! I know I just met him, but hey, dude's awesome & that's all I can say. :D & I did love him with Vicki; I thought they made a great contrasting pair in The Time Meddler. & really, I also think we need less companions falling in love with the Doctor onscreen, & more like Steven & Donna, who will call him out on his shit when needed. FAR more interesting, I would think!

POLLY! ::draws huge pink hearts:: That girl is AWESOME, AWESOME, AWESOME. I loved her when I first saw her in The Moonbase & I loved how caring she was with Jamie when he was so sick. I think The War Machines was a great introduction to her (& Ben!) & I'm looking forward to watching her in the serials I have of her.

& as for those that wave their hand at her as being a helpless little screamer, I'd say, 'DUDE? Go listen to the audios of The Moonbase, THEN tell me that to my face.' Her taking out Cybermen with nail varnish remover = best idea EVER. Clever & resourceful INDEED! :D

(I should probably finish that "Why Polly is Awesome" meta-y thing I started a while back, shouldn't I?)

DO IT. PLEEEEASE? :D I'd LOVE to read it!

[mistyraven.livejournal.com]

Know I'm super late on commenting on this, but I only just watched the Dalek Invasion of Earth a few days ago (rewatching the entire series, slowly but surely).

- Hmm. I was a bit underwhelmed by the Dalek coming out of the water, for some reason. I'd seen that bit before & flipped out a bit, but seeing it in context just sort of underwhelmed me. Not sure why, but Ian & One's reactions are the best bit of that segment, I think.

I about died laughing when this happened actually. Amazing XD

- Well, since I mentioned it, let's get there - I really liked David. He was one of my favourite characters of the story & I truly loved his relationship with Susan. I believed in it as it progressed & I loved the fish scene - it's playful, sweet & a light bit sexy, even. & their kiss! & then One came back & sort of spoiled it all. But how cute was David trying to seem totally innocent when One returned? ::giggles:: I really enjoyed watching their feelings for each other develop in all of their scenes together.

I thought their kiss was so sweet. One totally cockblocked them though, lmao. I was also definitely saying OTP before that happened, too... they're too cute together.

And I agree about the Robomen possibly being inspiration for the Cybermen. Very possible.

- Barbara Wright driving a bus, with Daleks all around her, then SMASHING RIGHT THROUGH A WHOLE LINE OF THEM. THIS WOMAN IS MORE THAN A MATCH FOR A MOTORISED DUSTBIN, SO WATCH OUT! That, to me, is one of her finest moments as a companion & one of the best moments in all of Classic!Who - at least that I've seen!

I love Barbara sfm, holy crap. She kicks so much ass.

And reading what you said about the Doctor's future punishment from the Timelords for breaking Time Lord law contributing to why he might have left Susan there, I think that's entirely possible. I need to watch more of this show asap :O

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

O, that's fine - I'm excited to see that someone else on my flist likes Classic!Who! :D

I thought their kiss was so sweet. One totally cockblocked them though, lmao. I was also definitely saying OTP before that happened, too... they're too cute together.

They really were. ::sighs:: & LOLZ, YES, ONE IS ALSO A FINE MASTER AT THE ART OF COCKBLOCKING, AS IT WOULD SEEM. XD Therefore, he's even more badass than I thought. :D I didn't think that was possible. :O

Robomen were SO similar to Cybermen in so many ways that I just can't believe that they didn't SOMEHOW serve as a source of inspiration for them, however small.

BARBARA FTMFW, SRSLY. She is totally awesome & I love her like crazy. Definitely a favourite companion of the sixties era Who. ^_^

And reading what you said about the Doctor's future punishment from the Timelords for breaking Time Lord law contributing to why he might have left Susan there, I think that's entirely possible. I need to watch more of this show asap :O

YES YOU DO. I'm currently fangirling the Two era, which is a TON of fun, so you should try there if you can. :D

& I don't doubt for a moment that Susan would have been let off scot-free, if her grandfather wasn't when they finally did catch him. If not something as horrific as a memory wipe or forced regeneration . . . I can't even imagine what they'd have done to her otherwise. As sad as it is that she was separated from her grandfather, I think in the end, it was for the best, for her safety & her own life.

& I will NEVER not get teary-eyed when I hear One's last words to Susan, ever. William Hartnell KICKED MAJOR ASS in that scene & it still sticks with me, even now that I've moved into another Doctor's era. They're just beautiful words & the moment is so well-played. ♥♥

(I NEED SUSAN ICONS!)

[mistyraven.livejournal.com]

Haha, I'm watching all the classic Who episodes I have available of the first Doctor, then I'll move onto the second, and so on. I'm doing this shit in order, haha.

Yeah, I definitely think that leaving Susan was the best thing that the Doctor could've done.

And I agree that Hartnell was freakin' awesome in that scene, and as the Doctor.

(I think we all need Susan icons :D)

[stellastars]

I'll be posting about it (hopefully) later this week, but I just had to stop by to see your thoughts on The Time Meddler. I *loved* it. Definitely a new favorite of mine.

- O. My. Word! I knew the Meddling Monk was a renegade like the Master & the Rani, but still, seeing that he has a TARDIS! Even if I was getting to that idea, it was still a shock to see! I LOVE THIS SERIAL, WHY DID I THINK I WOULDN'T.
YES. THIS. IN CAPSLOCK. I had no idea we'd see the Monk having a TARDIS and it was brilliant.

I'm trying to figure out -- have we even heard the term Time Lord in the whole series yet? Regardless, I don't think it was in this serial and I kinda love that the connection between The Monk and The Doctor was drawn solely through showing the TARDIS.

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

O, SQUEEEEE! I can't wait to read your thoughts on it! & it totally became a new favourite of mine as well - I have to get it on DVD!

I KNOW, RIGHT? That was a GREAT plot twist & I SERIOUSLY did not see it coming, even though I knew a little about the Monk beforehand. Then when I saw it, I was just like 'OMFG HE HAS A TARDIS?!'

& I don't think the Doctor had named himself as a Time Lord at that point in the series yet - I don't think he actually did until The War Games (& he doesn't reveal the name of their planet til The Time Warrior; yes I had to add that, it wouldn't have been a complete set otherwise. :P) possibly. But either way, the way the Monk & the Doctor were connected by way of a TARDIS was pure genius.

I wonder if they'll ever bring the Monk back for the new series . . . hmm.

[stellastars]

Definitely a new favorite of mine, too!

Yes, yes, yes! Exactly the same for me -- I knew a bit about the Monk before, but that scene really took me by surprise.

Ah, War Games and Time Warrior. I've seen Time Warrior, but not War Games yet. I'll have to watch for both mentions when I (re)watch.

I would love for the Monk to come back. (There have been rumors!) I mean, what has he been doing since 1066?

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

The Monk NEEDS to come back. Along with the Rani & the Celestial Toymaker. & Dodo! A few centuries is a LOT of time to be bitter with the Doctor - he's got to have SOME kind of revenge worked out for him, right?

(& I remember VERY early on, hearing that the Monk would be back in a special this year, but I haven't heard anything else about it, sadly, so I guess it was just a rumour. POUT. I'd love to see him again. :D)

[stellastars]

Yessss. So many good characters!

The Monk probably has some truly magnificent scheme for revenge. I may have to go search if there is any fic dealing with this...


(I knowww! There is much sadness if it was just a rumor, cause the casting of said rumour would have been fantastic! *holds out hope for Moffat*)

[riverdresses.livejournal.com]

Exactly! We've got such a rich history in this fandom & we barely even scratch the surface of it in the new series. :(

The Monk probably has some truly magnificent scheme for revenge. I may have to go search if there is any fic dealing with this...

O HELL YEAH. Maybe he even met the Master, who might have given him ideas - or offered to help. (ooo, spooky!) If you find any, do share it! The Meddling Monk FTW.

(I KNOW! I heard about that & DUDE. PERFECT CHOICE FOR THE MONK. PLEEEEASE Mr Moffat, PLEEEASE bring the Monk with you!)